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what should I pay for this Enco mill?

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ARC-170

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#1
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JimDawson

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#2
Given that most of the tooling has nothing to do with the mill tells me that he picked this up at auction or looking at the background in the pictures maybe picked it up for scrap. He has no clue what he has there.

I would start at maybe $200.
 

ARC-170

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Given that most of the tooling has nothing to do with the mill tells me that he picked this up at auction or looking at the background in the pictures maybe picked it up for scrap. He has no clue what he has there.

I would start at maybe $200.
I just edited the post. I just got off the phone with him. He told me he has three of these and has used it. He said he moved it from one facility to another. It's pictured in the back of a truck.

I'd love to low-ball him, especially since it's a long drive and doesn't come with ANY tooling. He did say he had a vise and collets but made it sound like those were extra.
 

TomS

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#4
I bought my Enco mill drill new for $1100 delivered to my door although it's a smaller version of the one pictured and it was a few years back. $2500 is way too much for that machine with no tooling. I agree with Jim, give the seller a low ball offer and see where it goes. Without seeing it and able to judge it's condition my gut is telling me this mill is worth no more than $500 to $600.
 

dlane

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#5
Round column, I would hold out for a better mill , $200 For that one
 

ARC-170

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#7
[QUOTE="TomS, post: 618562, member: 24891"]I bought my Enco mill drill new for $1100 delivered to my door although it's a smaller version of the one pictured and it was a few years back. $2500 is way too much for that machine with no tooling. I agree with Jim, give the seller a low ball offer and see where it goes. Without seeing it and able to judge it's condition my gut is telling me this mill is worth no more than $500 to $600.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the advice. Where did you buy yours?
 

yendor

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#8
$1800. is a lot for that machine. Even with the limited amount of tooling that it has.
No Vise on a hold down kit and who knows the condition of the end mills.
Sight unseeen they are scrap.

I wouldn't go more then the $600 - 800 from the 1st machine you saw.
 

ttabbal

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#9
Not much for machines in my area and I paid 2500 for a Bridgeport with some collets, phase converter, vise, and clamping kit. But it depends on the area and time. For a round column bare I wouldn't have done half that.

Of course, there's been a Southbend lathe in the classifieds locally for 3000 for a year. They don't even post real pictures and won't come down. Some sellers think these things are solid gold.
 

ericc

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#10
I would not low ball the person. The way the ad is written, it sounds like a tar kicker and a time waster. Unfortunately, this kind of person is very common. Try not to let it waste your time. Have patience.
 

TerryH

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#11
I paid $500 for my Taiwan made Enco 105-1110 with a decent amount of tooling. Pic is as it was when I bought it...

 
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C-Bag

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#12
Its odd in SoCal right now in that there are several mill/drills right now on CL and all of them are way over priced. Not even a month ago the median price for RF30's around $1000. Several were under in the $600-$800. But then they all went away and now everything is in the $1800 range....go figgur. Personally I would have liked the one I saw for $600, but it was an Enco Rf30 made in Tiawan. The one in the pic is not a 30. It's either a 20 or 25. Quite a bit lighter and less ridged than the 30.
 

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#13
[QUOTE="TomS, post: 618562, member: 24891"]I bought my Enco mill drill new for $1100 delivered to my door although it's a smaller version of the one pictured and it was a few years back. $2500 is way too much for that machine with no tooling. I agree with Jim, give the seller a low ball offer and see where it goes. Without seeing it and able to judge it's condition my gut is telling me this mill is worth no more than $500 to $600.
Thanks for the advice. Where did you buy yours?[/QUOTE]

Bought it from Enco before it became MSC.
 

682bear

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#14
20171024_113034.jpg

I paid $1500 for this Enco a couple of years ago... it came with a 6 inch Enco mill vise, a 12 inch rotary table, and a fair amount of tooling...

I would keep looking, the machines you are looking at are overpriced.

-Bear
 

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#15
So based on what TerryH paid, seems to me the mill I'm looking at should be less than $400, maybe even in the $200 range. However, it seems the going price is around $1,000.

I can get a brand new Grizzly for $750 to $2,000, depending on size. I'm fine with smaller, but would not mind bigger, especially since I keep reading that I'll always want a bigger one! So I'm looking for a used one to keep the cost down.
The round column seems to only be an issue if I need to raise or lower the head while doing an operation, correct?

I need a bench one, I just don't have the room or the need for a bigger one. I'm also looking for a lathe. I thought I might get a lathe/mill combo, like the Smithy.
 

Chipper5783

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#16
You have spoken mostly about the price. You have also talked a bit about the capabilities. You are thinking it would be nice to have a bigger mill.

Bigger is not always better, however in the home / hobby market, the ones that most people refer to as "big" machines would be considered "small" in the majority of commercial / industrial environments.

I encourage you to focus on what it is you want the milling machine for and look at what your constraints are (such as room, power, transport and any hard stop on price). Of course the cost of the machine matters, but I suggest you put that criteria well down the list. Strictly speaking on a machine that you will have for many years, that will be the cause of you spending a whole lot of additional dollars on setting it up and tooling it - the initial cost of the machine (even a full price new one) is still one of the lesser costs. It is much cheaper to spend the extra money in the beginning to get a machine that will do what you need & want than to struggle away with a lesser machine, get frustrated, go and purchase another machine etc.

You will come out ahead if you spend extra on the basic machine, than if you go cheap on the machine and don't get features that are difficult to do without.

What size? Your work envelop gets eaten up very quickly. That is one of the big drawbacks of the lathe/mill combos - the effective work space is very small. Regardless of the machine, by the time you mount a vise, then add a collet chuck (or drill chuck), then you put a tool in that chuck - you just lost about 6" of your head room. I have two mills - the smaller one has a work envelop of 12" x 8" x 12" (X-Y-Z), it is an extremely versatile, unusual little toolroom mill - I really like it, but since I got a regular knee mill with 10 x 48 table (28" x 10" x 17" - with additional "Y" on top of the knee to augment the 10" of travel), I hardly use the smaller one.

The knee mill that "Bear" posted a picture of above is a very nice, useful size, small milling machine. It is a great size for general mucking around, this and that sort of work. That is a "small" mill and super handy. It is easy to power (probably 3 HP), it is not real heavy (perhaps #2500), easy to move with rollers, jack, floor jack and it has a very respectable work envelop.

If you know that the stuff you are working on is all pretty small then a bench mill might really work for you - obviously only you can answer that. I encourage you to focus on the capabilities and not focus too much on the price. Pretty quick the price is forgotten. If you end up with something that doesn't work for you, then you will always be reminded that you wasted your money (regardless of how cheap it was).

Let us know how you make out. David
 

C-Bag

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#17
I totally agree. I went in knowing my work envelope was on the smaller end so I concentrated on "bench" size equipment. I've really become a fan of listing why I want a particular machine. And the kind spec's I expect to need to hold. You will find all kinds of people hating the mill drills but for me having seen the plus and minus I realized a 9x20 lathe and a RF30 would do my work envelope. And could hold the tolerances I needed and the parts were available with a ton of fans that had mod's to help fix their short comings. But that's just me.

I looked at the 2in1 lathe/mills and quickly realized it wasn't going to work for me. The sad thing is there are more people in my area that are looking for the same or close to what I wanted now. So the prices have really shot up as the prices of new machines has doubled and tripled. But when I was looking several years ago I was able to get a well tooled 9x20 for $600 and well used Enco Tiawanese RF30 for $400. But things have gotten out of hand here with tariffs. I have no idea if it's just a quick wave that will go back down or the new norm. It took me quite a while to find my deals. Patience pays off for me anyway.
 

C-Bag

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ARC-170

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#20
You have spoken mostly about the price. You have also talked a bit about the capabilities. You are thinking it would be nice to have a bigger mill.

Bigger is not always better, however in the home / hobby market, the ones that most people refer to as "big" machines would be considered "small" in the majority of commercial / industrial environments.

I encourage you to focus on what it is you want the milling machine for and look at what your constraints are (such as room, power, transport and any hard stop on price). Of course the cost of the machine matters, but I suggest you put that criteria well down the list. Strictly speaking on a machine that you will have for many years, that will be the cause of you spending a whole lot of additional dollars on setting it up and tooling it - the initial cost of the machine (even a full price new one) is still one of the lesser costs. It is much cheaper to spend the extra money in the beginning to get a machine that will do what you need & want than to struggle away with a lesser machine, get frustrated, go and purchase another machine etc.

You will come out ahead if you spend extra on the basic machine, than if you go cheap on the machine and don't get features that are difficult to do without.

What size? Your work envelop gets eaten up very quickly. That is one of the big drawbacks of the lathe/mill combos - the effective work space is very small. Regardless of the machine, by the time you mount a vise, then add a collet chuck (or drill chuck), then you put a tool in that chuck - you just lost about 6" of your head room. I have two mills - the smaller one has a work envelop of 12" x 8" x 12" (X-Y-Z), it is an extremely versatile, unusual little toolroom mill - I really like it, but since I got a regular knee mill with 10 x 48 table (28" x 10" x 17" - with additional "Y" on top of the knee to augment the 10" of travel), I hardly use the smaller one.

The knee mill that "Bear" posted a picture of above is a very nice, useful size, small milling machine. It is a great size for general mucking around, this and that sort of work. That is a "small" mill and super handy. It is easy to power (probably 3 HP), it is not real heavy (perhaps #2500), easy to move with rollers, jack, floor jack and it has a very respectable work envelop.

If you know that the stuff you are working on is all pretty small then a bench mill might really work for you - obviously only you can answer that. I encourage you to focus on the capabilities and not focus too much on the price. Pretty quick the price is forgotten. If you end up with something that doesn't work for you, then you will always be reminded that you wasted your money (regardless of how cheap it was).

Let us know how you make out. David
Thanks for the advice. I really appreciate the in-depth comments.

At this point, I'm looking to see what's out there and what it costs, both what it's LISTED for and also asking around to see what it SHOULD cost. Prices are all over and everyone seems to be asking gold-plated prices for tin machines, but I could be wrong, that's why I'm asking. I just want to know the prices I'm seeing are fair. If used is close to new, may as well buy new. I was hoping to save some money buying a used machine. This is also a hobby so I really can't justify to the CEO (aka "Wife") paying crazy money for anything. However, I teach at a high school (Engineering, including using tools) that has a shop, so I have access to bigger mills and lathes, but I'd like something at home I can use to create lessons and projects for the students. They need smaller (safer) items to build so a small machine is fine. I suppose I could justify the purchase based on it being work-related, but it's still our money!

I just cannot get anything other than bench top size. I don't have the room and I need to be able to move it around. I was going to place it on a rolling tool chest or shop-made wood table with wheels. I thought I would try to get the biggest machine I could mount safely.

The HF mill noted above by TerryH is on the heavy side (750lbs). The reviews are good. It costs about $900 with a 25% off coupon, but lead time is 5-17 weeks. My concern is that it is too heavy to mount safely. Hmmm... I think I just figured out what my machine size is!

The G0781 is about $1200, weighs 167#
The G0758 is about $1400, weighs 204# is a little bigger than the G0781.

These are close to the used prices I'm seeing. I try not to pay more than about half to 2/3 of new when I buy used since there is no warranty, I can't return it and only have a rough idea of what I'm getting. I realize that many machines come with all the tooling and that saves me money so I take that into consideration when I look at a machine. If it's $1200 and comes with everything I'll need, than I'd consider it. I've learned that from asking questions and reading this forum, so thanks! :)

I hope that helps clarify my thinking on this. I'm also looking for a lathe (I discuss that in another post) so I was hoping to get both with all the tooling for around $2,000 or less. Looks like I may need to revise that based on what I'm reading, or just be patient and see if the right deal comes along. Please keep the thoughts and comments coming, I really appreciate it!
 

C-Bag

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#21
I'm glad you are considering the logistics of the mill besides the space it takes up. A good strong table and a way to transport and lift it. My favorite way to lift around my shop is my HF folding engine hoist. At 750lbs it can do some damage to itself or anything it falls on. I know that's light compared to "real" mills but it will still put you in the hospital if it falls.
 

Chipper5783

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#22
ARC, it sounds like your space is a pretty hard constraint - that's simply reality. Absolutely, put everything you can on wheels. I was seriously space constrained for many years. We finally added on a nice sized work shop. My main machines are set on the floor, but everything I can I get wheels under it, or sits on purpose built blocks. I also have a pallet jack which is super handy - the equipment that is on blocks is very easy to move. The point being that if you have a good arrangement to move things, then you can work with more items in that space.

There is nothing wrong with paying "gold plated" prices, so long as you get a machine that is likewise really super nice. Everyone dreams of getting the gold plated machine for super cheap. Yes, it does happen, but it is sort of like winning a lottery - it happens, but don't count on it. I picked up several "screaming good, you suck" deals - however, none of them looked like it at the time (they started out looking horrible). The first machine I got, I paid the "gold plated price" for a used (just slightly used, but not brand new) very nice lathe.

In retrospect, paying the money and getting into a good machine off the bat, turned out very well. I went through all the same agony (actually it was a lot of fun) of ordering catalogs, getting machining books, talking to machinists, looking at machines etc for about 3 years. I kept saving up money - and finally went ahead and spent the cash. For the lathe, the power, the transport and the first round of basic tooling it was about $16,000 - and that was in 1983. Your situation is different, you are much more knowledgeable about machining and you have access to machines - I had neither of those when I started.

I do not agree that since this is a hobby, the machine has to be cheap. All in I have about $30,000 into 10 machines (depending on what you define as a real machine) - I know plenty of folks who have more than that in a boat, RV, sleds, truck, . . . hobbies which cost more and are used less than the hobby I am into. Spending $5000 for a decent little machine gets a person going (sounds like you know machines - $5K is still cheap, and all the machines you have mentioned are bottom end - even brand new there is nothing gold plated about them at all). If you start with a decent machine, it will always be useful - even when / if you get more machines. That first lathe that I bought back in 1983 is still a very useful part of my kit (I now have lots more iron, but that first lathe is my go to machine).

I suggest you pass on the mentioned CL machine and look for a more competent machine (while saving some funds, get your transport lined up, think about your work space and power), and be ready to move fast.
 

ezduzit

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#23
...The G0781 is about $1200, weighs 167#
The G0758 is about $1400, weighs 204# is a little bigger than the G0781.
...
These are flimsy toys.

Don't let portability cloud good judgement.
 

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#24
Update: the seller wants $850. Based on paying $2750 new for it about 7 years ago. Seller says he's a master machinist (60 years). Comes with a collet set and a few bits. He says he's used it and it cuts like a bigger mill (.020" cuts instead of .001" like the other similar machines).
Thoughts?
 

Chipper5783

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#25
The seller's comments make no sense. "Cuts like a bigger machine"! That does not mean anything. It can take a 0.020" cut. In what material at what feed rate? At $850 it is cheap enough that if you end up with something that does not work for you, then your loss is pretty small (you could sell it on for something?).
 

C-Bag

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#26
Well, sorry I ain't buyin' it. 6-7 yrs ago the Enco RF30(the bigger/heavier/better IMHO) was $1800 which I thought was outrageous. Just my 2c.
 

TomS

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#27
Update: the seller wants $850. Based on paying $2750 new for it about 7 years ago. Seller says he's a master machinist (60 years). Comes with a collet set and a few bits. He says he's used it and it cuts like a bigger mill (.020" cuts instead of .001" like the other similar machines).
Thoughts?
For comparison I can take a 1/4" depth of cut with a 4 flute 3/4" end mill on my RF-30. If .020" is all it can do then walk away.
 

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#28
I'm not sure how much of what he was telling me was BS. I just asked questions and posted what he told me. I got the impression this was on a tool room on a ship. He's selling it because it's an extra one.

I mentioned the HF machine was similar and about $900 with a coupon. He said this machine is way better.

He told me if I can "move it by hand" I can have it for free. I'm wondering if there's a way I could actually move it by hand. It's in the back of a pickup truck. I could back my pickup truck up to it and figure out some way of getting it from one to the other. It was 800 lbs!
 

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#29
He told me if I can "move it by hand" I can have it for free. I'm wondering if there's a way I could actually move it by hand. It's in the back of a pickup truck. I could back my pickup truck up to it and figure out some way of getting it from one to the other. It was 800 lbs!
Finally looking at a potentially worthwhile deal. Where there's a will there's a way.

I think you mentioned it was on "Star of India". That's a museum ship in San Diego. The conditions may not have been ideal, in terms of environment. But the people who would have used it are likely quite competent.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
 

ARC-170

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#30
I was under the impression that these machines are all made in the same factory, just with different paint and QC levels. Am I totally wrong?

I think he was kidding when he said I could have it if I could move it. I mentioned bringing a hoist, but he told me I needed to use my hands. Whatever. I can't really think of a way to move 800 lbs with nothing but my bare hands. I would need some sort of lever. I thought of putting small pipe under the mill and rolling it from his truck into mine (provided he doesn't put it on the ground). I figure I could rock it to give me some room to stick a pipe under it. I get one under it, the rest will go under, then I could roll it. Not sure this would be considered "bare hands" though.

Is $850 a fair price? Based on a new one being $1800, it's not bad, but based on the previous comments in this thread that seems high. He was originally asking $1250. I asked him again and he told me $950, but he would take $850. He mentioned "they" were asking that price, so he may just be an employee. I countered with $600, got rejected. I may just need to walk away; I got time, and this is a long drive anyway. I think I'd pay about $400 based on the HF one being $900 with a 25% coupon and not wanting to pay more than half of new for anything used, especially on CL. It's not really a deal if I have to pay more. That said, let me know if I'm wrong.
 
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