what should I pay for this Enco mill?

craptain

Registered
Registered
Joined
Sep 21, 2017
Messages
87
The original decent quality Rong Fu was made in Taiwan, and they produced the same machine with many labels. Enco being one of the main ones. Mine is labeled Meda, and was imported by a New York company. It's plenty accurate enough for me and I paid 600 for it along with a few colletts and a crappy vise. Later production moved to mainland China, where the early ones were reputed to be still OK. But the quality soon became very varied. Depending on the label. Harbor Freight is a mixed bag as they contract on price. I don't believe that any are made in Taiwan any more.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
 

C-Bag

Ned Ludd's bro
H-M Supporter Gold Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2017
Messages
1,674
CL is funny. You get all kinds on both ends of any deal. The trend lately has been in our neck of the woods to much higher than a couple of months ago. I knew the if you can move it by hand was some kind of bluster. With me he'd rue that statement as I'd do a variation as to what you said and take my handy dandy 6' aluminum ramp and several pieces of shaft and tilt the mill and put the shafts under the mill and put my ramp between the beds of the trucks. That smaller mill with no stand is not 800lbs. It's not super light either and the whole thing is not without danger. Personally I'd not let anybody on my property trying to do something so dangerous for fear they got hurt. I'll stop with the armchair quarterbacking and leave it as my teenage daughter would say, "whatever dude".
 

ARC-170

H-M Supporter - Silver Member
H-M Supporter - Silver Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2018
Messages
390
UPDATE:

Mill is still available. He still wants $850. I offered $750, but he wouldn't go lower. It comes with no stand and no tooling. It's a long drive for me to just go and hope I can talk him down. I'm in no hurry, but I have some time now and thought I might make the drive. Thoughts?
 

mickri

H-M Supporter - Gold Member
H-M Supporter Gold Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2016
Messages
1,015
The Star of India is an old wooden square rigger. It's docked in San Diego bay. That boat is routinely washed down with saltwater and there is always saltwater in the bilges sloshing around. That is a saltwater marine environment where everything corrodes over time. You can't prevent it. Unless it was maintained in excellent condition there is going to be corrosion somewhere. I would want to know how long it was on board. Be prepared to have to replace all of the bearings in the quill. The bearings in the motor may also need replacement.
 

ARC-170

H-M Supporter - Silver Member
H-M Supporter - Silver Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2018
Messages
390
The Star of India is an old wooden square rigger. It's docked in San Diego bay. That boat is routinely washed down with saltwater and there is always saltwater in the bilges sloshing around. That is a saltwater marine environment where everything corrodes over time. You can't prevent it. Unless it was maintained in excellent condition there is going to be corrosion somewhere. I would want to know how long it was on board. Be prepared to have to replace all of the bearings in the quill. The bearings in the motor may also need replacement.
I was thinking the same thing about the salt air exposure, but the seller seems set on his price. How much are quill bearings and motor bearings? Are they easy to replace? I don't think this one is a contender anymore, but I would like to know how much it would cost to replace bearings.
 
Last edited:

ARC-170

H-M Supporter - Silver Member
H-M Supporter - Silver Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2018
Messages
390
Found another one. Seller is asking $750. Thoughts?:

Selling a Morgon mill/drill machine. Identical to a Rong-Fu RF31 or Jet mill/drill, so parts are easy and cheap to find. Made in Taiwan, so slightly better quality than many modern import machines. R8 spindle, 8x32 table, 12 speed belt drive and 2HP motor.

Comes with a rotating milling vise and a ton of endmills.
mill drill no top.jpg
 

mickri

H-M Supporter - Gold Member
H-M Supporter Gold Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2016
Messages
1,015
This one is in the ball park and worth going to take a look at it. It might not last very long with a rotary table and some tooling.
 

T Bredehoft

Active User
H-M Platinum Supporter
Joined
Dec 27, 2014
Messages
3,361
Rotating milling vice, Vice mounted on a fixed plate with numbers stamped on the base.

ARC-170 Have you gotten it yet?
 

ARC-170

H-M Supporter - Silver Member
H-M Supporter - Silver Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2018
Messages
390
This one is in the ball park and worth going to take a look at it. It might not last very long with a rotary table and some tooling.

Rotating milling vice, Vice mounted on a fixed plate with numbers stamped on the base.
ARC-170 Have you gotten it yet?


Working on it! He's not available today. Stay tuned.
 

Downwindtracker2

Active User
Registered
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
411
This is the pricing rate I use, cherry 50%, run of the mill used 35%, project 10%. of new. At 10%, I've plowed 25% into parts. Of course if I could get away with paying project for cherry I would, but that hasn't happened yet. Since I've retired, that's 12 machines, 3 at auctions , 5 off CL , 2 private and 2 consignment, I'm not holding my breath on that. Basically it's 1/3 new.
 

ARC-170

H-M Supporter - Silver Member
H-M Supporter - Silver Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2018
Messages
390
Here's another one. Thoughts?
enco 105-1300 with z axis feed and DRO.jpg
Its in good shape. Some chipping of the paint from transporting it. It has a power Z feed, but it currently does not have a belt hooked up to it to make it run. It has a DRO setup, that is hooked up to the Y axis. Includes Cabinet. $950

The vise is $250 extra. If I buy the vise and mill, the seller will throw in a clamping kit.
 

ARC-170

H-M Supporter - Silver Member
H-M Supporter - Silver Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2018
Messages
390
This is the pricing rate I use, cherry 50%, run of the mill used 35%, project 10%. of new. At 10%, I've plowed 25% into parts. Of course if I could get away with paying project for cherry I would, but that hasn't happened yet. Since I've retired, that's 12 machines, 3 at auctions , 5 off CL , 2 private and 2 consignment, I'm not holding my breath on that. Basically it's 1/3 new.
I do something similar. I figure it's CL; nothing is worth more than half of what I can get it for new, especially without any warranty or returns. I use the same rule when listing. I look up what a new one costs and list it for a little more or less than half price, depending on condition. I also look to see what else is selling in my area.
I think it all depends on how bad the seller wants to sell, too.
For this mill drill, a comparable new Jet is $2,000 + tax and delivery. That's about $2,200 since I think I can get this thru Home Depot and get free delivery. A comparable new Grizzly is about $1800 delivered.
There are people listing these for $1200 and up! Some don't want/need to sell, others think they have something special.
I would also point out that people looking on CL are not willing or able to pay new prices; if they were they'd buy new! CL is for buying and selling deals, not an alternate retail marketplace.
 

mickri

H-M Supporter - Gold Member
H-M Supporter Gold Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2016
Messages
1,015
Decision time. ARC-170 only you can decide. Go with what you think is best for you. I personally don't think that a power z is worth much on these light duty machines. A DRO and power feed on the x & y are definitely a plus as is the kurt vise. $250 for a kurt vise, not a clone, is in the ball park.

Another one to go look at.
 

craptain

Registered
Registered
Joined
Sep 21, 2017
Messages
87
The seller states it's a rebuilt Kurt.
Doesn't look very rebuilt to me. At most it has aftermarket jaws. My 4" Kurt cost me $100 in excellent condition. 4" is ideal for that size mill. I have a couple of 6" that haven't been used in over a year.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
 

Eddyde

H-M Supporter - Sustaining Member
Staff member
H-M Platinum Supporter
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
1,704

C-Bag

Ned Ludd's bro
H-M Supporter Gold Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2017
Messages
1,674
Go with what you think is best for you. I personally don't think that a power z is worth much on these light duty machines. A DRO and power feed on the x & y are definitely a plus as is the kurt vise. $250 for a kurt vise, not a clone, is in the ball park.

.
The Z downfeed is the one thing you can't add on easy. RF30's with this rarely come up. It's the one thing I wish mine had because I use my boring head a lot and it would be great to just push a button and not think about the finish by hand. It doesn't have the X feed, but it does have the DRO and stand. Just my 2c.
 

ezduzit

Active User
Registered
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
590
...nothing is worth more than half of what I can get it for new...
"Rules" like this are absurd and have no value whatsoever, other than to prevent one from actually using his head to identify a real deal. For example, if you are shopping for a clean, used milling machine, and someone has just what you're looking for, in like new condition, for 60% of new cost, your "rule" would make you pass on an excellent deal.
 

ARC-170

H-M Supporter - Silver Member
H-M Supporter - Silver Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2018
Messages
390
"Rules" like this are absurd and have no value whatsoever, other than to prevent one from actually using his head to identify a real deal. For example, if you are shopping for a clean, used milling machine, and someone has just what you're looking for, in like new condition, for 60% of new cost, your "rule" would make you pass on an excellent deal.
I can always break the rule! :) It's less of a "rule" and more of a guide. There's a few sellers trying to sell lean, used mills for $1400 and up. They are priced way too high based on what I've seen sell over the past few weeks. Anything priced below $900 gets sold quickly. Theirs have been sitting for at least 5 weeks. That tells me that my guide is about right, since a new mill is about $1800-$2000. I think sellers on CL pad their prices, expecting people to offer less. We all want to think we are getting a good deal, so I assume they are padding it and offer less. I have nothing to lose; they can counter and I can accept or reject. I suppose it would be different if I lived outside a major metro area.
You raise an interesting point, though; at what percentage of "new" do we decide is too much? Your example of 60% is really close to my 50%, so I might be willing to pay it. Those listings for $1400 are 70% of $2000; that's too close to new prices to justify buying from a stranger on CL with no returns or warranty. It's really a judgement call, I suppose. To me, and excellent deal is 50% or less of new.
 

C-Bag

Ned Ludd's bro
H-M Supporter Gold Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2017
Messages
1,674
The problem is the "new" price has changed, sometimes a lot on the older mills. There is a ton of details to take in. My experience with CL is the ones who are asking too much are not the original owners and they have scanned new prices where ever and always quote them. Trying to point out their price is out of line has never made anybody budge significantly. The only thing that's worked for me is to show up, face to face and go from there. Pic's always look way better than the machine looks like in the flesh so when they look ragged online they are going to look even worse live. I also try to not get too attached to the deal beforehand. That way I can be calm about dickering.
 

ARC-170

H-M Supporter - Silver Member
H-M Supporter - Silver Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2018
Messages
390
Does anyone know where I can find the cover for the belts? One of the mills I'm looking at is missing it. It's probably not critical that I have it, but I'd like to know if one is even available. The seller seems to have lost it. A quick Google search didn't turn up anything. Maybe I'm not using the right term? However, I did find the Grizzly version, but I'm not sure if it's EXACTLY the same.

belt cover.jpg
 

Downwindtracker2

Active User
Registered
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
411
I've tossed out a low ball offer and have had it accepted. I call those throw away offers or bids. That was the 25% in parts machine, chuckle. It's better machine than new now. In that case the fellow had picked it up at an auction for peanuts obviously.
 

yendor

Active User
Registered
Joined
Dec 11, 2013
Messages
252
That cover is removable via the PIN type hinges.

Many of us just leave it off as it gets in the way every time you want to chnage belts for the spindle speed.
 

C-Bag

Ned Ludd's bro
H-M Supporter Gold Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2017
Messages
1,674
That cover is removable via the PIN type hinges.

Many of us just leave it off as it gets in the way every time you want to chnage belts for the spindle speed.
and rattle and buzz like crazy if left open.
 

mickri

H-M Supporter - Gold Member
H-M Supporter Gold Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2016
Messages
1,015
I leave my cover off. Like above it's a pain to remove to change the belts and rattles. Your hands are no where near when using the mill. You can claim its a safety issue to a seller offer a lower price.
 

ARC-170

H-M Supporter - Silver Member
H-M Supporter - Silver Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2018
Messages
390
UPDATE:
I went and saw the mills in posts #36 and #41.

Post #41 (Enco): I've decided, after seeing one in person, that an RF-31 is just too big. I took a look at it and thought, "I'm not really ever going to need that much table." The whole machine is also bigger than I thought it would be. The column is 4 5/8" in diameter, which confirmed for me that it was the bigger one. The Z-axis downfeed was underwhelming to me. The large bolts that are tightened to keep the head from rotating are not original, so the heads are a bit smaller and require you to wedge a screwdriver in there to keep them from rotating as you turn the bolt. The rotating vise is actually a compound slide off a lathe. Otherwise it was a nice machine. The seller was asking $925, I offered $800 and he didn't counter except to say he was firm, didn't really need to sell it and had a few others coming to look. He posted it awhile ago for $1,100 and got no takers, so he lowered the price and his getting more bites.

Post #36: what a mess! The seller has this at a friend's house. The seller took the motor, switch cover and switch lever off. He had them all on a plastic box, but his buddy lost the nuts for the motor bolts, the nuts for the bolts that are tightened to keep the head from rotating, and the top belt cover. The garage it was in was a total mess, so we had a hard time finding everything. He told me he took one of the lead-screws off. Not sure why he did this, but everything worked when I tested it. The machine was filthy; it was covered with a thick grime. The seller was using steel wool to get it off. The motor runs fine (it was wired, just not mounted on the machine), the main spindle bearing appears to be ok, but the middle pully bearing runs a little rough. This whole machine badly needs lubing. The handles on the tables looked melted. The rest of the handles were missing or had a bolt only. The spindle lock handle and downfeed handles were gone. These didn't appear to be similar to what I've usually seen on these mills so I'm wondering if it's "aftermarket" or a replacement. The downfeed axle was chewed up bad, so attaching another downfeed handle assembly will be an issue. A y-axis lock bolt on the side of the table was missing.

The label reads "Samson", so I'm not sure what this is equivalent to. The machine is painted green. The column was 4" in diameter which leads me to believe this is a smaller machine. It was on the ground, though, so maybe my perspective was off. It seemed much smaller than the bigger one. I think I may take another look at the next size down.

I told him I'd think about it. He was asking $750. I'm thinking of offering way less, given the condition. I'm thinking I could maybe get a new/used downfeed mechanism and spindle lock. I'd have to take the machine apart and clean and lube it. The top cover I could leave off. How hard is it to disassemble these machines? Are used parts even available? Or, I'll keep looking.

Thoughts?
 

mickri

H-M Supporter - Gold Member
H-M Supporter Gold Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2016
Messages
1,015
Unless he is willing to sell it for next to nothing as a project and you are ok with fixing it before you can use it I would pass. I am thinking between $100 to $150 at most.
 
It can take up to an hour for ads to appear on the page. See our code implementation guide for more details. If you already have Auto ad code on your pages there's no need to replace it with this code
Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock