What to buy next? Shaper vs. Surf grinder vs. Tool Cutter grinder?

I'm with benmychree, a surface grinder is way more useful. I've realized that is the logical next step for me. Shapers have disappeared from industrial shops for good reasons. I used the one we had in my machine shop class in '78, I was probably the last person. They're kind of cool in a primitive, dinosaurish sort of way, but realistically a vertical (or horizontal) mill will do anything a shaper can do.
 
What kind of projects have y'all done with your surface grinders? Do you use them often? What would be the most common use?
Robert
 
Way beyond big and fancy and shiny tooling, which take lots of time and usually some pricey steel, and I don't start working on, I find the biggest joy I get with my surface grinder is all the little stuff that needs cleaning up or making something fit properly. The mag chuck makes setups really fast for simple work, like making something thinner. Need a shim? Grab a flat washer is too thick, throw it on the chuck, and grind it until it fits. Only takes a few minutes, and it is in full control. Some things that you could work really hard to fit in a vise on a mill are simple when using a mag chuck on the grinder. I use mine often, and do not have a shaper or a T&C grinder. A surface grinder can do some cutting of tools, but it is not nearly as versatile as a T&C grinder, and often requires some thought to get some fussy sharpening job done. The answer is that you need all three, plus a place to put them, and a bunch of tooling, and... :eek 2:
 
Bob Korves said:
Way beyond big and fancy and shiny tooling, which take lots of time and usually some pricey steel, and I don't start working on, I find the biggest joy I get with my surface grinder is all the little stuff that needs cleaning up or making something fit properly. The mag chuck makes setups really fast for simple work, like making something thinner. Need a shim? Grab a flat washer is too thick, throw it on the chuck, and grind it until it fits. Only takes a few minutes, and it is in full control. Some things that you could work really hard to fit in a vise on a mill are simple when using a mag chuck on the grinder. I use mine often, and do not have a shaper or a T&C grinder. A surface grinder can do some cutting of tools, but it is not nearly as versatile as a T&C grinder, and often requires some thought to get some fussy sharpening job done. The answer is that you need all three, plus a place to put them, and a bunch of tooling, and... :eek 2:
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Isn't that the truth! Boils down to room, money and time...having two without the third isn't going to work :surrender:
 
Surface grinder hands down. If you have a mill the shaper will sit idle.You can sharpen some tooling on a surface grinder ,but good luck grinding anything flat with a tool and cutter grander.
 
It was said that the shapers main job nowadays is to cut internal keyways. I have cut several on mine but since I came into a few keyway broaches, the shaper is for sale. And all you really need is the broach at $30-50 each. Even if you have a set of bushings, you probably won't have the size you need anyway. They are easily made with a lathe and mill and soon you WILL have a set.

The SG is by far the most useful of the machines mentioned. Imagination will make much use of it!

Aaron
 
It's interesting everybody mentions the shaper being good for keyways and splines. I've never used mine for that yet. What it has done for me is take big rusty pieces of steel and make them smooth and flat within .001", or nice and square super cheaply. Can your lathe, verticle mill or surface grinder give you this kind of finish on aluminum? I'm not bagging on anybody's choices. It just depends on what you do. I'd love to have a Micromaster but I don't have the room or the $$$.
 

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stioc said:
So it sounds like the vast majority believe that a surface grinder is a more useful tool after a lathe/mill. There are a couple of SGs in the $600 range where I live but no power feed (https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/tls/d/fullerton-boyar-schultz-surface-grinder/6987869800.html).

In contrast, it seems the shapers and T&C grinders are harder to come by and are more expensive.
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Personally, I wouldn't get too hung up on a grinder missing power feed if it's in good condition and the price is right. Power feed is nice, but not necessary especially for a hobbyist. Mine doesn't have it. If you watch some of the better YouTube videos on top notch grind hands you'll see a lot of them use manual machines.

See: https://www.youtube.com/user/SuburbanToolInc/videos

and: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKPqKYF73sJbFUSzo5dQxtQ/videos

A couple guys who seem to use manual machines in their videos.

Ted
 
Technical Ted said:
Personally, I wouldn't get too hung up on a grinder missing power feed if it's in good condition and the price is right. Power feed is nice, but not necessary especially for a hobbyist. Mine doesn't have it. If you watch some of the better YouTube videos on top notch grind hands you'll see a lot of them use manual machines.

See: https://www.youtube.com/user/SuburbanToolInc/videos

and: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKPqKYF73sJbFUSzo5dQxtQ/videos

A couple guys who seem to use manual machines in their videos.

Ted
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I agree. More often than not it's grinding round things
 
I would also be in the camp that the power feed is not necessary. My grinder gets used more often to sharpen end mills, counter sinks and horizontal milling cutters than it does to do large surfaces. The only caveat is that once you do use a grinder with auto feeds it's hard to go back to hand cranks.

One of our grinders at work was completely automated. You could set the feed rate, step over rate and down feed. It came in especially handy when I had to make dozens of assorted size angle plates. It was an excellent 10"x 30" Doall machine. I could have purchased it for pennies on the dollar when the shop closed. I passed on it mainly because of it's size. It took up quite a bit of floor space when you include the hydraulic system, coolant system, and power panel.

For what I do my 6"x 12" machine is sufficient. When I do run into larger things that need grinding I can take them to a friends commercial shop. Either he'll do the grinding for $50.00 (I furnish the wheels) or I can do it for no cost.
 
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