What to consider in vise selection

[lSherlockl]

So I have a decent feel of what I am looking for in milling machine, and still plan to end up with a RF45 style of Benchtop (if they can even be called that) mill

I tried to do some research, and really i have seen quite a lot of inconsistent information. I know there is a lot of how will you be using it and what kind of work and materials you will be using.

I do have a few generic questions that I am seeing or wondering what's the practical rule or advise. A ton of post I have seen people comment you wouldn't need more than a 4" vise while others advocate go for 5 or 6 or you will be wanting. I just want to understand some of the logic is all without hopefully going too deep down the rabbit hole as I know its well one of the more critical and reasonably expensive pieces of kit when starting out.

Is the bigger deal the weight? or the overhang (a lot of the pics I have seen there is quite a bit of overhang off the table) is the goal for the max of Jaw grip to be within the envelope or the table or more than half the vise? Even a lot of the 4 inch vises would overhang a table of 9.5 inch by at least 3-4 inches.

Is there negatives to using say a 6" vise to grip say something that is 3" long? in the middle of the jaws? On the edge of the jaws? Basically is there a reasoning that wider is not better.

rear jaw mount for lack of better term cast into the body vs keyed and bolted on? I know here quality of the devise is huge but curious as to the logic of what makes one better

I know the phrase of buy once cry once, but realistically from a hobbyist perspective is there a sweet spot in terms of "decent" I know obviously china 100 buck wonders are pretty dicey at best but the average hobby machinist do they really benefit from say a EDIT $600 Kurt (IDK what I was on before but still not a cheap vise by any means)

Personally I had been considering some of the Taiwan brands tike Tegara or Teco or some of the Palmgren lines of vises (really they probably are the same OEM) as a potential "reasonable" choice for a hobbies. Tegara has a shorter 6" CNC vise that seemed like a interesting proposition for a bench mill where your table is not quite so deep.

 

[benmychree]

Big vises can get pretty heavy; small mill small vise; Kurt type import.

 

[T Bredehoft]

I ordered the cheap ($89.00) vice when I bought my PM25 several years ago. It hasn't failed me, but it surely hasn't surprised me either. There seems to be a very slight difference in the pitch of the screw and it's mating part. I should have 4 1/2 or 5 inches of travel, (never needed it, though) with a little manual umph I can get three.

That's the only complaint I have, didn't bother PM about it. I'd rather have at least the next step up, but can't rationalize it now.

So, spend what you are comfortable with, ignore the $800 jewels, you won't need that.

With your 45, I don't think a 4" vice is too small, but it might not be quite big enough. The Overhang you mention is a killer, limits the Y travel by it's amount. Unless your head is on a ram and can move out, avoid that overhang.

 

[KevinM]

I ordered a 6" vise, it is HUGE! I never used it on my mill, I use it as an anvil. Here is a picture of the 2 (other is 4") side by side.




The jaws of my 4" Tegara (not the vise pictured) has a max opening of 12 3/4" if I move the jaws to the outside of the vise.

 

[KevinM]

I just bought a Tegara 440V to replace my $100 vice. The Tegara was lacking a couple for features that my old vise had like the face of the clamping jaw was concave to help holding round parts and the sliding jaw was skewed to help with clamping tapered parts. I could put two identical parts, one of the left side, one on the right. After tightening the vice snugly the part on the right could be lifted easily from the jaws.

 

[ttabbal]

There are a few youtube videos reviewing a cheap vise. They don't seem too horrible for the price, honestly. But you can get a 6" Kurt DX6 for about $500 from a few places. And a 6" is probably big for your mill. a 4" might be a better choice. You can clamp smaller parts in them, I put a part in my 6" that was about 0.5". Just put it in the center so the pressure is right on the part.

I bet you would be happy with a mid range Taiwan import. I would avoid the really cheap low end, personally. I think I'd go for a used good brand first. The vise affects every part you make in it, so IMO it's worth spending a little more on. It's not that you can't make a good part in a bad vise, you certainly can, but it's harder.

 

[DavidR8]

A six inch vise is going to be huge on that table. Not only for overhang but also they eat up precious Z-axis height.
I have an RF30 size mill with the same depth table and my 4" Glacern vise is the perfect size.

 

[lSherlockl]

Thanks for the inputs.

All fair logics, i know the used market scares me some in the realm of precision equipment namely you really dont know entirely what you are getting i dont know how far out of wack things could potentially be on say a used Kurt (that being said there too 6in seems the common size and most of those are longer yet)

I will say I wish they made a smaller vise in the style of the tegra 660U (like a 5 or a 4") its mounting options have 3 points for hitting the T slots on each side, without flexing to clamping to table and tighter footprint seemed really interesting in concept at least. but yeah at 15" it would give you 5 inch of overhang.

 

[DavidR8]

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Vise

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[Dabbler]

On my very first mill, I bought a 6" import vise that only opened 5 1/2 inches. It did okay, wasn't too big. The table was an 8X34 inch, but I had good Z height. I never used the rotating base plate for it, which saved me .700 of Z height.

Here's what I leaned: If you are ever going to do any kind of larger work, get one like a Kurt where you can mount the jaws on the backside of the jaw carriers for wider opening. My import did not have that feature. Thus I ended up selling it eventually.

To replace it I bought a Kurt 633 clone from Taiwan. Very high quality, very square, and smooth operation. It allowed 6" with regular positions and over 10" with the jaws reversed.

It is a great vise, and I love it - however for my new mill I bought a real Kurt DX6 crossover, and I love it. there's nothing like using a great tool. I use both interchangeably, but I like the Kurt a lot more.

If you can afford it, get a Kurt D40 or DX4. You will love using it. The import vise I bought for my first mill never gave me problems, but it was nothing like using the better quality ones.