What tools to buy?

[astjp2]

So I am endeavoring into learning how to scrap and correct machines alignment. I need to buy a scraper or make one, I need to get the tooling to clean up dovetails, what should I buy or look for? Should I get dovetail cutters with replaceable bits or will the basic cutters work. I have started with creating straight and flat surfaces on a milling table with a surface grinder, now I need to correct the ways....So I need to get/make the next tools to do this. Tim

 

[Erik Brewster]

So I am endeavoring into learning how to scrap and correct machines alignment. I need to buy a scraper or make one, I need to get the tooling to clean up dovetails, what should I buy or look for? Should I get dovetail cutters with replaceable bits or will the basic cutters work. I have started with creating straight and flat surfaces on a milling table with a surface grinder, now I need to correct the ways....So I need to get/make the next tools to do this. Tim

As for milling cutters to roughly correct things, I think a fly cutter with some high speed steel bits is fine for correcting a way. You should only be taking a tiny bit off, and you shouldn't worry about cutting time. The setup time will be the big one, not the cutting time. If you want carbide, I would recommend just grinding some brazed carbide bits. If you go with inserts and you find they aren't the right angle, etc. What do you do? You grind them and then they aren't any better than the cheap brazed on bits.

Do measure things before you get too excited about milling things straight. If you aren't off by more than 0.005", you might just consider only scraping it - it might be faster.

For a scraper, I have a hand scraper (http://www.mcmaster.com/#3643a17/=ogqrqw, or similar). You can make your own, too. Carbide tips only. If not, you will be sharpening forever. I have scraped a 6" x 6" x 6" angle plate with it and it works, but it sure is a lot of work. You will find out how strong and steady you are if you go this route. I also got an ancient Biax on ebay. Works great and I'll never go back. I bet I am 10 x faster with my Biax. And maybe more accurate, too.

No matter what you use for a scraper, you will need:
- Blue marking compound - http://www.artcotools.com/die-spotting-ink.html
- Surface plate
- Foam roller or brayer for spreading the blue
- Grinding stone for deburring - http://www.artcotools.com/india-round-edge-slip-stones.html
- Some way to sharpen your scraper. Carbide stays sharp for a long time, but it needs to be perfect or you will just scratch things up.
--A glendo lapper is ideal http://www.hobby-machinist.com/show...-tilt-table-grinding-machine?highlight=glendo
-- There are clones people have made here
--- http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/11032-Glendo-lapper-clone?p=91356#post91356
--- http://www.hobby-machinist.com/show...sive-Scraper-Blade-Sharpener?highlight=glendo

 

[genec]

you might take Rich King's class or buy his videos

 

[Richard King]

Thanks genec...

As everyone here has seen there are many folks who can teach and give advice on scraping. I like to sit back and watch them teach. Makes me proud to see how this site teaches anyone who asks. There are several You Tube movies you can watch too. You should buy a book called "Machine Tool Reconditioning" . It is an oldie but goody. Rich

I buy the stones from MSC and they Norton MS-24 and you can buy the ink from DAPRA.com plus scrapers, ink rollers and the book. I am a rep for them, but you can contact them directly as small orders are a hassle for me...ha ha

You can buy the DVD here. Look at Auctions Forum at the top of the list, I offer a discount to the members.
look at the past threads on this forum and you will find several showing tools. Like the one's Eric shows. The threads that Jan have done on here with his You Tube movies (what is the proper name for them anyway, lol). There are several ways to sharpen carbide blades as you can see, but Erick is right, don't screw with HSS.

Rich

 

[DMS]

I would add a straight edge and/or a prism for marking inside dovetails. I made my own out of a length of durabar, and it is good practice at the very least. Also, the link that Erik posted to the scraper on McMaster is an Anderson brothers scraper if I am not mistaken. They are cheaper if you buy directly from Anderson (by $10 or so).

http://www.andersonscraper.com/order.htm

I would also recommend a DTI, a 0.0001 indicator would be nice, I only have a 0.0005 indicator (some day...).

Here are some pics of some of my tools. On the top is a photo of the scaper I made, just a carbide blank, hot rolled steel, and a file handle. The bottom is an Anderson brothers scraper. Sitting on top is the 50 degree prism I made. I was pretty proud of it when I made it, but looking at it now I can see that it could definitely use some work.

 

[jshaugjord]

Maybe a little aside the actual scraping tools (which the other have summed up so well), I would also suggest a machinist level, resolution 0.0005" per 12"
Comes in handy. My experience (because of inexperience....) is that it is good to have different ways to do/measure the same, so a reading with one tool is indeed confirmed with measurement using another tool/procedure/technique. Working alone, that is confidence-building.. (and confusing when they disagree.. until you find out why, but when you do, you are one step forward on the learning curve!)

Worth saying once more.. the scraping seminar/course is a good investment

 

[astjp2]

Well the first thing I ordered was a Machinery handbook, 20th edition. Its not the newest but the price was right at $29. I have found a 4x4 surface plate from a ctlm that was torn down for 500, but I need to save my pennies for that. I think a scraper is next, along with getting a roller for the blue. Tim

 

[ScubaSteve]

Well the first thing I ordered was a Machinery handbook, 20th edition. Its not the newest but the price was right at $29. I have found a 4x4 surface plate from a ctlm that was torn down for 500, but I need to save my pennies for that. I think a scraper is next, along with getting a roller for the blue. Tim

4x4 surface plate for $500? do you mean 4' x 4'? That sounds gigantic...not sure you need one that big. If you're talking inches, that's too small. Plenty of grade A granite surface plates available new for ~ $150 shipped.

 

[astjp2]

4x4 surface plate for $500? do you mean 4' x 4'? That sounds gigantic...not sure you need one that big. If you're talking inches, that's too small. Plenty of grade A granite surface plates available new for ~ $150 shipped.

4'x4'x1' they were part of CTLMs that were disassembled, the prices is fairly cheap for that size, they do have a slot down the middle for mounting of the former parts of the machine. Tim

 

[Richard King]

4x4 surface plate for $500? do you mean 4' x 4'? That sounds gigantic...not sure you need one that big. If you're talking inches, that's too small. Plenty of grade A granite surface plates available new for ~ $150 shipped.

Steve the bigger the better when it comes to a plate, he is saying 4' x 4' and the thicker the plate is the better the grade. I use to buy old CMM (Coordinated measuring machines) dismantle the top and use them for the bigger plates. Most used machine dealers will practically give them away when the software is out of date or not working. Look at Phil's Bench-Master Thread and look at the picture and see where he is using a surface gage to measure his table and he used it to scrape the table and top. In order to do it right your plate of straight-edge has to be longer then the part your checking or scraping. One can step scrape something long with a short plate or straight edge and a level, but it is a real pain and not something a novice should do. Price is relative to where it is and if it has a stand, made in the USA not some cheap certified Asian plates I have seen. They say A grade but are F grade after they were tested. I have seen a few good imported ones but of the handful of granite squares and plates i have seen they were out even when they were new.