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Where to Buy ETD 150?

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Allan

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#1
As the title says I would like to buy maybe 3 feet of 1/2" or 5/8" ETD 150. Does anyone know who sells it in small quantities? I don't mean equivalent like 4140 I want the real La Salle Steel stuff.
 

Martin W

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#2
Metal Supermarket should be able to get it in for you. Not sure if one is near Kleefeld you may need to go to Winnipeg
Cheers
Martin
 

Allan

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#3
Thanks, Martin.
I have asked them about Stressproof in the past and they didn't have access or didn't want to or something. Just an "equivalent". I'll contact them. They're a really good bunch of guys there in Winnipeg. I highly recommend them.

Now that I think of it one of our local machine shops sold me some Stressproof. They probably won't have it but you never know.

Al
 

westsailpat

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#4
Allan I'm curious , why do you want Stressproof ? Back in the mid 90s' I had a recurring job ( a recoil arrester for a rifle co. ) and they oked' Stressproof for the part . That stuff saved my day .
 

Allan

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#5
Hi, Mark.
I don't actually want Stressproof. I want ETD 150. I need to make a pin for the hammer of an old Piepert rolling block rifle I snagged at a gun show. It had the receiver, the lever and the hammer. Nothing else.

Being a Remington style rolling block action most of the bolt thrust is on the hammer pin. It is only .211" diameter. I want it to be as strong as possible. ETD 150 is very strong (130,000 pis yield) and supposed to be nice to machine.

Thinking of chambering it in a 17 cal of some kind.
 

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Allan

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#6
Wrong File. Shows the finished rifle but not mine. I'll try again.

Pieper Rifle 1.JPG Pieper Locking Mechanism.JPG
 

MrWhoopee

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#7
I guess I was spoiled. Our hometown steel supplier carries it, along with Stressproof, 12L14, etc.
https://www.modestosteel.com/products.asp

The owner is a prince, one of the finest people I've ever met. For a piece that small, they may be willing to ship. Never hurts to ask.
 

Allan

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#8
I will definitely contact him if Metal Supermarket doesn't have it. I have a US address I use to which saves a lot on shipping. Thanks for the info, Mr W.
 

Cooter Brown

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Allan

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#10
Cooter, that sounds like tough stuff and would do a great job. But It also requires heat treating and sounds a little nasty to machine. I think I'll pass on it but thanks for the thought. ETD is already hardened and machines at 70% which is important since I need to thread one end.
 

Allan

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#11
In the past McMaster-Carr would not ship nor even sell to Canadians. I haven't tried in a while.
 

P. Waller

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#12
You buy any material from a company that sells that material, nothing could be more simple.
Why is this a question at all?
 

Allan

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#13
But it ain't that simple. The problem is finding a company that sells a rather uncommon product. And one that sells it in small quantities. And especially one that won't rip you off because they can. Especially in a country where it isn't made. McC have been suggested to me more than once. I drool over the stuff youse guys have access to. I think Homeland Security has put fear into a lot of US suppliers or they just don't want to bother with such a small market as ours. Many sellers on E Bay won't ship to Canada even if you find a good deal.

There are more people in California that in all of Canada - even though Canada has 24 times the land area. In other words suppliers are few and far between. And our market is too small for most things to be made here so they are imported. The Medicine Line causes all kinds of grief for Canucks trying to access things. I only live 30 miles from the border so I can have stuff shipped stateside and save a bundle. It takes me just as long to drive into Winnipeg- our biggest city.
I checked locally for a 5/8"-11 bottoming tap and was quoted $75. I bought a set of 3 new Greenfield taps on Ebay for $20. That would be a $225 dollar cost if I bought them here. So I saved about $205 dollars for that drive. I know that Pennsylvania has a long history steel making and manufacturing and has a heaven sent number of tool and metal suppliers. Manitoba, not so much. We are mostly farm country.

So that's why.
 

Allan

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#14
Just one example of supply woes: Brownells sells rifled barrel blanks for $150. A Canadian makes one that sells for $419. I can't buy major gun parts from the US without a special permit. The permit application fee is $200. There are companies with the proper permits to import. They charge between $175 and $200. Sigh.....
 

GL

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#15
We used stressproof for cylinder pins and pins for other moving joints on our off highway trucks (mostly 1.5 and 2" TG&P) until it became too expensive to get the LaSalle product. The standard substitution is cold drawn 1144 - not 1144L, which is the free machining version with lesser mechanical properties. 110ksi tensile, and acts softer than the numbers would indicate. It does induction harden nicely leaving a thick hard surface and a tough core, at least on larger diameters. It would not be my first choice for your application as you describe it, or as I understand it. 4140 has better mechanical properties, harder surface, and better fatigue properties. On the other hand, a .17 isn't going to beat the action up like a 30 cal would. One other consideration I just thought of is that the surface property enhancements of cold finished rounds are, well, at the surface. Material should be close to final size or you take the chance of cutting off the good stuff - may not be a big deal getting to 0.211 from 0.250, but would be starting from 0.375.

Sounds like a fun project.
 

Allan

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#16
Thanks, GL.
The ETD stands for elevated temperature drawn. The benefit of this is that, unlike cold rolled, it is through hardened. So turning it doesn't cut away a hardened layer. I know that Guy Lautard in his barrel making book says not to use Stressproof for barrels even though at first glance it would seem ideal. He says to use 4140 which is pretty much industry standard. Of course neither you nor I were talking about barrels just the action pin. But this pin takes most of the bolt thrust so it is critical. I'm not sure any modern centerfires round can be used safely. It was originally a 32 rimfire. I'd like something a little flatter shooting. 32 rimfire is like windmilling a softball- only slower. And impossible to find ammo for. Perhaps a 32 long?
Still an arc-like trajectory.

17 HMR would be OK but it is kinda pricey for rimfire. I can reload 17 Hornet for the less and play with loads to get accuracy. I hope to acquire a copy of De Haas' Single Shot Rifles and Actions but the price of it is heart stopping. In it he apparently evaluates many actions and gives recommendations for what cartridges are safe for conversions. He also has many cut aways and drawings of the actions so maybe I can fabricate the missing bits of the action.

Here is the La Salle info sheet on ETD:

http://www.niagaralasalle.com/pdf/etd150casestudies.pdf
 

MrWhoopee

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#17
We used a lot of ETD-150 and Stressproof at my shop and kept sizes up to 1-1/2 inches in the rack. ETD has always been my go to when strength is important but the expense of heat-treating etc. was not justified. Both have excellent machinability and can be hardened if desired. Stressproof is a specially processed 1144, it does not contain lead.
http://www.niagaralasalle.com/product-stressproof.html
 
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