Why is it acceptable

[nighthawkFmobil]

I recently became obsessed with lathes and decided to purchase one along with some tooling. It's a hobby so I didnt want to go completely nuts but I wanted top of the line. I chose a company with a good reputation and spent over 4500 after shipping and tools to get started. I love everything about my lathe so far except the 4 jaw chuck that I spent 480$ extra on(lathe came with 6" 3 jaw).

Why should it be acceptable to be told that the chuck may need to be trimmed down a bit or worked on in some way to get it to sit right with my spindle? I mean I paid almost 500$ for the chuck after after spending thousands with this vendor should I really not expect the chuck to wobble because this is a "hobby level" lathe setup? The 3 jaw works perfect and all of the camlock stud indicators are in the same spot relative to the lip of the hole. On the 4 jaw when the studs are situated in a spot to accept the camlock all of the indicator rings are sitting at different heights along the lip? Like wtf? Seems pretty obvious to me that the thing is going to have some wobble? Am I crazy? Vendor rep thinks so. The thing sits flat against the spindle it's just off. Super frustrating. Just curious why its acceptable In this community to tell people they're just hobby level so they shouldn't expect things to work? If I'm going to have to machine something do get it to work I want a disclaimer beforehand like there was with the QCTP and I gladly paid the extra 20$ to have the thing shipped in working order.


Sheesh

 

[DavidR8]

What vendor are talking about?

As an aside, I see that this is your first post here.
Can you tell us a bit about yourself, your experience and what you’ve machine bought?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mikey]

On the 4 jaw when the studs are situated in a spot to accept the camlock all of the indicator rings are sitting at different heights along the lip? ... The thing sits flat against the spindle it's just off.

I kinda understand the reason for the rant but am not clear on what the problem is. Are you saying that the indicator lines on the camlock studs in the back of the chuck are at different levels? If so, remove the socket head cap screws at the base of each pin and turn the stud in or out until the line lines up with the surface of the chuck, then reinstall the screws. Then try locking the chuck on the spindle and see how the cams line up. Or am I more confused about what you mean than I think I am?

 

[Video_man]

Generally with a cam-lock you are expected to adjust the studs to fit the female camlock on the spindle. If I understand your post, the chuck adapter isn't fitting properly into the spindle, and the adjustment is fairly simple to accomplish. I'll look for a reference and post it here if I can find it.

<edit> here is a reference on this site: https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/enco-13x40-d1-4-three-jaw-chuck-adjustment.31188/

 

[Bi11Hudson]

It is general practice, as in necessary, to "tune" every chuck to the specific machine it is used on. Mine are screw-on chucks, Craftsman/Atlas 12" and Grizzly 9" with the same spindle thread. Although the thread is the same, the chucks are not interchangable without tuning them to the specific machine they are used on.

For general shop use by me, it really isn't absolutely necessary that they be tuned. But to get any serious accuracy, it should be done. I occasionally swap chucks around to fit the job. But my use is such that in most cases it doesn't matter. Short work, close to the chuck, and loose tolerances. As long as that's the case, fine tuning doesn't matter.

My machines are archaic, the C'man being older than I am. And I'm 70ish. There are many systems for hanging a chuck. And with each it is necessary to fine tune the chuck, whether it is new or salvaged or removed from another machine. Take some time to tune it for the machine it is to be used on.

Tuning for runout is a whole different matter. For my 3 jaw chucks, the jaws are moved one step at a time until runout is lowest. Then marked so they can be replaced in the same order. But for a 4 jaw chuck, this is a non-issue. The above post has a link to a different mounting system.

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[Tozguy]

Sheesh, welcome to the forum, hope you enjoy your experience here.

The rings on the studs are just a guide to get the studs setting in the ballpark when assembling the chuck.
When installing the chuck the individual studs might have to be turned in or out to get the cams to hold properly (ie. between the 'V' marks when tight). The rings on the studs might end up at different depths. Where the rings on the studs are located is of no consequence. That's the nature of the D1- system.

Too bad that your discussion with the rep got sidetracked, it is not about what hobby people are like.

 

[Janderso]

Tooling can be expensive. My Bison 4 jaw was about $1,000. That was a super deal.

 

[NortonDommi]

As has been said you will need to adjust the studs to the correct depth. BEFORE you start mucking around I suggest you mark the spindle and the chucks so that you always fit them the same way. Make sure your 3-jaw is marked as to which jaw goes in which slot as well. The jaws will be marked but you will need to remove them to see the number. Good fun moving them around to find the best accuracy then mark the corresponding slot.
D1 camlocks do not have to be cranked down with all your might either. Tighten up as you would a cylinder head working across the chuck in a pattern. I have measured the difference in runout between just starting at on stud and working around doing them all tight in one hit and working around in three or four bites in a pattern. An extra minute makes all the difference.

 

[Tozguy]

Chances are that the 3 jaw was installed at the factory so it would come already adjusted to your spindle.
The 4 jaw even if ordered with your lathe would not have been fitted to the spindle and then removed before shipping. So we can not expect to avoid the need for final adjustment on the 4 jaw D1 studs no matter how much the chuck cost.

The thing sits flat against the spindle it's just off.

That is what is important, that the chuck be pulled tight to the spindle with no daylight showing in the gap anywhere. Often the tapered nose on the spindle will be a tight fit in the recess of the chuck so it is very important to pull the chuck on evenly as Norton mentioned above. If that is not the case then the chuck will be off for sure.

If however the chuck is installed properly but something is off, we would need to have more detail on what exactly is off.

 

[nighthawkFmobil]

Wow. Wasnt expecting so many replies, that's awesome. That was my first post but I've been lurking on the forums for months now and I really do appreciate all the info one can learn places like this. Truly amazing.

My apologies for the confusion. Honestly guys the 4 jaw came with the studs not installed so i read the manual and was able to get them to seat just fine. Let me explain all I've tried as far as the studs are concerned.

First I hand tightened them down to bottom out in the hole then roated them to where they aligned with cap screw and that was a no go for camlock engagement. Then I backed them out one full turn from from that position and no engagement(yes I have the 3 studs as well as the 3 locks on the spindle numbered) no matter how I clocked them there was no engagement. Next I went two full turns and I get no engagement however I clock them. At 3 full turns i get proper engagement with the camlocks and there's no light between the spindle and the chuck. But all of the locks are at different positions within the V two are pretty close but one is obviously off. With that setup no matter how I clock them I get runout along the side of the chuck of about .0025" and the back I get about .013-.020"runout yet the back is fully seated on the spindle or at least I cant see a gap or light when I shine from opposite side. Not to mention the wobble I get when I actually run the spindle. So I back them all out 4 full turns and they all fall between 6-12 and the other is close to 6-12. I even had the two that engage at 3 full turns nicely set at 3 full turns and then I'd set the one that's off at 2 turns and it engages but still has a wobble, then I'd set it at 4turns and it would spin to 6-12 position. I've pretty much rotated studs and clocked it every which way I can imagine while it still engages and well nothing... but wobble

Ok I went through to double check all the stud heights and clocking each.
- First I put studs at the first available setting that matches with the cap screw hole I will refer to it as setting 0. None of the studs would engage.
-next I put them all 1 full turn out from setting 0 I'll call that setting 1. None of them engaged
-next I tried setting 2 and with all 3 studs number stud 3 was able to engage with all 3 locks at the spindle somewhat but the other two could not
not
- tried them all at setting 3 and clocked all 3 ways but could not get rid of wobble.
wobble.
- then put stud 3 back to setting 2 and left studs 1an 2 at setting 3 and I was getting better readings. I found the studs had the hest readings when seated with the corresponding number on the spindle coincidentally. 1at1 2at 3at3 I was able to get a reading of .0005" on the side of chuck and .004" at the back of the chuck. Manual states you want a runout of -=<.025mm or .00098". I ran the machine and it seemed better but I feel like I saw a bit of wobble but it seemed to be less noticeable at a higher speed.
-next I tried studs 1an 2 at setting 4 and neither would engage at any position on clock
then to be extra I put studs
-then to be extra I put studs 1 and 2 back to setting 3 and tried stud 3 at setting 4 at all positions on the spindle and it would spin past the v's just like studs 1 and 2 did

I think it's safe to assume I'm tuned the best this thing is going to get at this point.

Is the only way to find out to take a cut? I mean it's hard for me to seem wobble at this point but I think I see a bit at lower speeds. The vendor rep told me the dial indicator reading on the od of chuck and the back don't matter. But the manual for the chuck being sold under vendors name that was apparently written by the vendor or specifically for them states otherwise the way I'm visualizing it the indicator would pick up wobble from the back for sure. If the numbers do matter is the od being out .0005 and the back being out .0045 acceptable?

I've attached a picture because I'm wondering if this style chuck has a removable backplate and if the cap screws I circled would have anything to do with the alignment?

Sorry my post are so long I'm obviously not the most concise.

Kind regards, thanks