[4]

[How do I?] Wiring Craftsman lathe for forward and reverse

[3]
[10] Like what you see?
Click here to donate to this forum and upgrade your account!

Kit Maira

Swarf
Registered
Joined
Aug 28, 2018
Messages
19
Likes
3
#1
My 101.28970 12 inch Craftsman lathe came with a Craftsman 11319656 1/2 hp motor. The switch provided is a Cutler-Hammer three position switch, fwd, stop and reverse. However it is presently wired just on and off. Can anyone provide a wiring diagram to make it fwd and reverse? I note that there are two wires, a green and a red that are not connected. Can anyone help?
 

Attachments

ELHEAD

Active User
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Messages
242
Likes
184
#2
Don't know about the wiring , but just wondered about the threaded chuck and reverse rotation. By the way I have basically the same lathe. Serves my uses well.
Dave
 

Kit Maira

Swarf
Registered
Joined
Aug 28, 2018
Messages
19
Likes
3
#3
I can’t answer that question yet, but check out the YouTube series by MrPete222 AKA Tubalcain. He has lots of videos showing threading (and just about any operation you can think of) using the Craftsman 12-inch and at least one about indexing the threading processwhere he says reverse is essential.
 

markba633csi

H-M Supporter - Gold Member
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
2,758
Likes
1,429
#5
Does the the motor run now as it's currently wired? We would need to look closely at the motor wire terminals to see if the start wires are
accessible- I see it's a dual voltage motor so possibly reversible too.
A close up picture(s) of the motor wiring end would be useful- need to see where those extra wires go (if they go anywhere)
mark
 

BaronJ

Registered
Registered
Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
328
Likes
177
#6
Hi Kit,

Can you post a better picture of the motor rating plate ?
 

Kit Maira

Swarf
Registered
Joined
Aug 28, 2018
Messages
19
Likes
3
#7
Does the the motor run now as it's currently wired? We would need to look closely at the motor wire terminals to see if the start wires are
accessible- I see it's a dual voltage motor so possibly reversible too.
A close up picture(s) of the motor wiring end would be useful- need to see where those extra wires go (if they go anywhere)
mark
It does run now. I will need to take the motor out to get a pic of the wiring on the motor side. This will have to wait for the evening as I am at my day job right now. There are two wires from the motor, a red and a green, that are not being used, so I think these are for reverse. I’ll get back to you by tomorrow. Thanks for your help!
 

Kit Maira

Swarf
Registered
Joined
Aug 28, 2018
Messages
19
Likes
3
#8
Hi Kit,

Can you post a better picture of the motor rating plate ?
I will, but I am at work right now so it will have to wait for the evening. Thanks for your help!
 

markba633csi

H-M Supporter - Gold Member
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
2,758
Likes
1,429
#9
Hi Kit, I doubt those red and green wires are connected at the motor end- if they were important wires the motor wouldn't run. Anyhow, get some good pictures and we will get a better idea how it should hook up
mark
 

Kit Maira

Swarf
Registered
Joined
Aug 28, 2018
Messages
19
Likes
3
#10
Does the the motor run now as it's currently wired? We would need to look closely at the motor wire terminals to see if the start wires are
accessible- I see it's a dual voltage motor so possibly reversible too.
A close up picture(s) of the motor wiring end would be useful- need to see where those extra wires go (if they go anywhere)
mark
Now that I have the motor out I can see that the green and red wires are snipped at the motor end. There are four terminals in total. A blue wire from the motor goes to T2. A brown wire from the motor goes to T3. A yellow and a blue wire from the motor attach to the T4 terminal which goes to a black wire from the switch, and the white wire from the switch goes to a terminal marked T1. There is nothing else connected to that terminal. I reterminated those two wires after pealing back some insulation to discover their true colors. I have also attached a better pic of the switch. You should be able to see that there are black jumper wires attached from one side of the switch to the other, but the switch only works in one direction.
 

Attachments

BaronJ

Registered
Registered
Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
328
Likes
177
#11
Hi Kit,

I assume that this motor does not have a centrifugal switch and that it has a single capacitor.
single-phase-capacitor-wiring.jpg
Like this diagram. Assuming that the motor is symmetrical, simply moving the live wire from the left side of the capacitor to the right side will cause the motor to run the other way. Since your motor is dual voltage it maybe that one winding is a different value to the other. In which case it might be why the wires have been cut, ie to prevent damage to the motor.

If you know how to use a multimeter on the low ohms range you could discover if the windings are the same.
 

markba633csi

H-M Supporter - Gold Member
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
2,758
Likes
1,429
#12
Do you have an ohmmeter Kit? It looks as though the start wires are connected internally- you may have to disassemble the motor to locate them. Motors that don't mention how to reverse them on the nameplate are usually more difficult to rewire. First, pull off the capacitor cover and note the colors of the wires connected to the cap- that might give some clues
mark
ps Baron: most motors of this type here in the states do have centrifugal switches, and the start and run circuits are in parallel (120 volt)
 
Last edited:

BaronJ

Registered
Registered
Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
328
Likes
177
#13
Hello Mark,

It gets quite confusing, the rating plate clearly states "Capacitor Motor" but apart from the dual voltage, there is nothing to indicate what wire is what.
At least over here wiring information is either on a label stuck to the motor or stuck under the terminal box lid.

single-phase-capacitor-wiring.jpg
This is how I would expect the wiring to be with a centrifugal switch.
The switch will remain closed until the motor reaches 70% of full speed.
It is likely then, that the main winding is center tapped to give the 120/230 volt settings.
If this is the case then, as I said earlier, just move the live wire to the other end of the capacitor.
 

markba633csi

H-M Supporter - Gold Member
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
2,758
Likes
1,429
#14
Baron: usually there are two run windings which can be configured either series or parallel for 240 or 120 volt, respectively, plus the start leg (capacitor, switch and winding). For the 240 volt case, usually the start leg is placed in parallel with one of the two run windings.
You're correct though, I see no information given even to wire for the two different voltages- maybe there was a booklet or a label which is missing.
I suspect this motor may be tough to reverse, and I mentioned that earlier. Digging out the necessary wires might be a difficult job.
Kit: Isn't this motor a bit small for that lathe? Seems like 3/4 to 1 HP would be a better fit. I have the bench model of that lathe and I'm planning on using a 3/4 HP motor on it eventually
mark
 

Kit Maira

Swarf
Registered
Joined
Aug 28, 2018
Messages
19
Likes
3
#15
Do you have an ohmmeter Kit? It looks as though the start wires are connected internally- you may have to disassemble the motor to locate them. Motors that don't mention how to reverse them on the nameplate are usually more difficult to rewire. First, pull off the capacitor cover and note the colors of the wires connected to the cap- that might give some clues
mark
ps Baron: most motors of this type here in the states do have centrifugal switches, and the start and run circuits are in parallel (120 volt)
I do have an ohm meter. The wire colors at the capacitor are black and blue.
 

Kit Maira

Swarf
Registered
Joined
Aug 28, 2018
Messages
19
Likes
3
#16
Baron: usually there are two run windings which can be configured either series or parallel for 240 or 120 volt, respectively, plus the start leg (capacitor, switch and winding). For the 240 volt case, usually the start leg is placed in parallel with one of the two run windings.
You're correct though, I see no information given even to wire for the two different voltages- maybe there was a booklet or a label which is missing.
I suspect this motor may be tough to reverse, and I mentioned that earlier. Digging out the necessary wires might be a difficult job.
Kit: Isn't this motor a bit small for that lathe? Seems like 3/4 to 1 HP would be a better fit. I have the bench model of that lathe and I'm planning on using a 3/4 HP motor on it eventually
mark
This is the motor the lathe came with when I bought it. It might be a little small though. I was just on the Grainger site and they have some wiring diagrams for their switches. I’m hoping there is a clue there. Again, thanks for your help.
 

markba633csi

H-M Supporter - Gold Member
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
2,758
Likes
1,429
#17
Kit it looks like you would have to remove the end bell of the motor to get access to the back of the terminal board and the internal wires for the start winding- how badly do you want the reverse feature LOL? It's certainly possible but for this particular motor Craftsman didn't make it easy
M
 

CluelessNewB

Active Resistor
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
1,102
Likes
607
#18
This link is not the manual for your exact motor but it may be close enough, similar vintage and same manufacturer. The colors of the wires seem to match what you have. I'm still trying to wrap my head around what is going on under the covers. Unfortunately the instructions don't help much with that. There are instructions for reversing with a Sears switch but nothing generic.

http://www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/222/4780.pdf

Edit:
I suspect the two blue wires go to the start winding. The diagram below shows the terminals that get connected in each position for a Furnas brand switch which is what I suspect the "9M 2982" that Sears sold was.

FurnasSwitch.PNG
 
Last edited:

BaronJ

Registered
Registered
Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
328
Likes
177
#19
Hi Guys,

So it is a center tapped run winding !
 

Kit Maira

Swarf
Registered
Joined
Aug 28, 2018
Messages
19
Likes
3
#20
This link is not the manual for your exact motor but it may be close enough, similar vintage and same manufacturer. The colors of the wires seem to match what you have. I'm still trying to wrap my head around what is going on under the covers. Unfortunately the instructions don't help much with that. There are instructions for reversing with a Sears switch but nothing generic.

http://www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/222/4780.pdf

Edit:
I suspect the two blue wires go to the start winding. The diagram below shows the terminals that get connected in each position for a Furnas brand switch which is what I suspect the "9M 2982" that Sears sold was.

View attachment 274999
This is useful, but my switch works differently. I played with it some, blew a circuit breaker in the garage, and put it back the way it was. I think I am going to run it in one direction for a while, and look for a comparable switch. The ones that Grainger sells look more like the 9M 2982, so I may go in that direction. Thanks everyone for your help.
 

BaronJ

Registered
Registered
Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
328
Likes
177
#22
Hi Kit,

I take it that you don't have a multimeter ?
I've looked at the picture of the switch you posted, are those six connections, ignoring the earth one, all there are ?
 

markba633csi

H-M Supporter - Gold Member
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
2,758
Likes
1,429
#23
Kit: The switch you have will work fine; it's the motor that will require some detective work. You need to locate the two ends of the start leg. One end is probably brought out (one of the blue wires I think, from the cap) the other end may be internal and might be covered with insulation or tape, or plugged into the back side of the terminal board. You might be able to use your ohmmeter to locate the ends. When you do, then you add extension wires over to your drum switch; I can post a diagram.
mark
 
Last edited:

markba633csi

H-M Supporter - Gold Member
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
2,758
Likes
1,429
#24
First step would be to pull off the blue wire from the cap and use the meter to see if it's the same as one of the blue wires that comes out to the terminal board. Then we can go from there. What type of meter do you have? Analog type (with a needle) or digital?
M
 
Last edited:

CluelessNewB

Active Resistor
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
1,102
Likes
607
#25
After looking at the documents posted above, this is my best guess at the internals of that motor. The start winding, cap and switch will be in series. The actual order shown for the start circuit may not be correct but it shouldn't make any difference as far as external electrical connections. Note the brown wire bypasses the heater part of the thermal overload, this allows that same overload to be used for both 115V and 230V. When used at 115V the current from only one run winding and the start winding go through the heater.

CMAN_113_19656_internals.png
 

Kit Maira

Swarf
Registered
Joined
Aug 28, 2018
Messages
19
Likes
3
#26
Hi Kit,

I take it that you don't have a multimeter ?
I've looked at the picture of the switch you posted, are those six connections, ignoring the earth one, all there are ?
I do have a multimeter. I count 10 connections including the ground. Three on each side, three in the middle bank and the ground.
 

Kit Maira

Swarf
Registered
Joined
Aug 28, 2018
Messages
19
Likes
3
#27
First step would be to pull off the blue wire from the cap and use the meter to see if it's the same as one of the blue wires that comes out to the terminal board. Then we can go from there. What type of meter do you have? Analog type (with a needle) or digital?
M
Mine is a cheap digital from Harbor Freight. Sorry to take so long to answer, I'm at work, usually can only work on this in the evenings.
 

Kit Maira

Swarf
Registered
Joined
Aug 28, 2018
Messages
19
Likes
3
#28
After looking at the documents posted above, this is my best guess at the internals of that motor. The start winding, cap and switch will be in series. The actual order shown for the start circuit may not be correct but it shouldn't make any difference as far as external electrical connections. Note the brown wire bypasses the heater part of the thermal overload, this allows that same overload to be used for both 115V and 230V. When used at 115V the current from only one run winding and the start winding go through the heater.

View attachment 275020
Feeling dumb here, I don't know what this means.
 

CluelessNewB

Active Resistor
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
1,102
Likes
607
#29
Feeling dumb here, I don't know what this means.
Well mostly it means that you should not need to take apart the motor to make it reverse! I believe all of the connections you need are already available. I also think it means that we have almost enough information to hook it up. What we still need is more information on the reversing switch you have.

Is there a model number or even better maybe a connection diagram on the inside cover of the reversing switch your have?
 

markba633csi

H-M Supporter - Gold Member
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
2,758
Likes
1,429
#30
Hi Clueless, it looks like the switch is fairly self-evident, I see two pairs with crossover wires already installed. Those would be the reversing contacts. A couple jumpers would need to be added.
Kit: If Clueless is correct about the blue wires being the start leg, when you connect your meter (on ohms) to them you should see a resistance change from low to high. If you see this, then reverse your test leads; you should see it again (low to high). If you see a steady reading or no reading (infinity) then you will most likely need to open the motor up
M
ps disconnect the power when doing these tests- be safe
 
[6]
[5] [7]
Top