Powering options of a VN 12 single VFD?

Wilde Racing

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So I'm going to try and get my VN 12 running very soon. I originally thought I could just buy a VFD and feed the now 3 phase into the factory wiring and switches, but a little searching I come up with people mentioning you need two VFD or phase converters. one for the head and another for the feed. I thought I could just make due with one to run both. I know any VFD adjustments would effect the head speed as well as the travel speed but other than that is there any other concerns?
 
The goal of employing a Variable Frequency Drive <vfd> is generally to provide a variable speed range, often replacing
the change of pulleys on older equipment. Since VFD's are usually targeted at 3phase motors -- even this isn't cast in
stone, as single phase VFD's are appearing on the market for frac horsepower applications -- one gets the "side effect"
of converting to single phase line use if its a single phase ->3P VFD. Many are 3P->3P.
The usable range is -- very generally -- only about 50% of the speed range, as torque falls dramatically below some point
on the duty cycle. Keep in mind that that insulation and magnetic structure of older motors was not built with
freq changing in mind, and will most certainly not be ideal.

On a lathe, this "bandwidth" falloff isn't too big a deal, as depth of cut generally falls with torque, and surface finish
can actually improve. Time in cut can become excessive. For hobby uses, many don't care, and "make it work".

On a mill, this no big deal isn't necessarily the case, although some appropriate values can be determined by changing the number
of teeth in the cut, restoring adequate "chip loads" to get the cutter to work effectively -- or at all.

With that brief explanation, I think having a VFD that supported both drive motor and X axis would be a huge
Pain In the Arse. Not to mention that one cannot hang two motors on a single SCR bank and have it
work, or be durable, or obtain a warranty.

If someone has actually tried it and not fried the semi-conductors, please weigh in with specifics
about brand, model, power factors, back-EMF, speed stability and all the other concerns that make this "a bad idea"
from the outset. Its a conversation I'd find interesting. Of course, a "two channel" VFD probably exists, but probably
costs more per delivered HP than two cheap ones, as it has specialized application concerns and a market willing
to pay a premium for an oddball feature set that works.

Last; almost every VFD I've seen has a warranty exclusion for switching the load side. In other words, "don't do that".
One can only imagine what severing the load at speed might do to the electronics, as the load spike travels
back up the firing path! So, no; you won't be "just wiring a VFD to the reversing switch", much less through it.

--frankb


So I'm going to try and get my VN 12 running very soon. I originally thought I could just buy a VFD and feed the now 3 phase...
</vfd>
 
Thanks for the in-site. as I'm sure my posts prove I know very little in the world of A/C power and phasing. So to recap, No way reversing direction would be cool with the VFD, and running multiple motors on a single VFD is a really bad idea due to the VFD load limits plus the power drop off. Am I understanding this correctly?
 
Wilde Racing,

your understanding is basically correct.

The PDF, in its lead sentence, pretty much says it all: "same speed, identical motors" ...
which perhaps "fools" the VFD into thinking its controlling one motor with
lots of parallel windings. It "only" requires that the VFD is designed to manage all these parallel
impedances, not a very difficult problem. I'd guess one would also require similar loads presented
to each motor, as well. Useful for hydraulic pumps operating similar valve/load banks, for instance.

One might not get the desired result as the motor windings age and start influencing each other's behavior.
Can't tell from the marketing blurb. And presenting truly different windings+loads to --even a pair of-- motors should
prove unpredictable, no matter how one arranges it. "One sucks all the current while the other sits and stalls" kinda
thing. At different speed/load point combinations, one would expect them to swap roles!


of course, if you never change speeds, and can manage to find one set of combined speeds where both work well,
it should work. no different than plugging two AC motors into one line. can't say its very useful for a mill, however ...
but it might work for your circumstances, if you're "just" using a vfd to bridge a supply situation. after all,
you still have a transmission on each drive, if your VN is the right vintage.

you may also risk burning up a motor by compromising its insulation, throwing excessive VFD current to make
up for lack of synchronous speed in the magnetics, and never see it coming until the fire starts. the insulation
system was designed to work for one speed, and one frequency, after all.

hth.

--f




 
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