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5C Collets -- good ones vs. bad ones

Discussion in 'MACHINE ACCESSORIES (Tables, Vises, Indexers)' started by billooms, Sep 27, 2013.

  1. billooms

    billooms United States Active User Active Member

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    Sorry for posting this question again. I've seen some threads that mention good vs. bad quality 5C collets, but I've been unable to find those threads by searching.

    I'm biting the bullet and buying a Bison 5C chuck for my Grizzly G0750G lathe. I can't afford sets of Bison collets, so I'll have to settle for lower quality for now. I would appreciate comments on the quality of various collets:

    CDCO
    Shars
    Discount Machine on eBay (same as Shars?)
    Quality Machine Tools (QMT)
    Enco (Lyndex or Interstate)
    Any others?

    If you have experience with any of the above, would you say "Never again", "Sure thing", "Hit or Miss".

    Thanks,
    Bill
     
  2. Frank Ford

    Frank Ford United States Active User Active Member

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    I reckon I'm not as picky and my need for precision isn't as great as some, but I've had generally good results with 5C collets of all "quality" ranges. Certainly, some of the imports aren't sprung open nicely like the Hardinge collets, and don't work as smoothly.

    The only really bad one I bought new was a new Lyndex (English made, if I recall) from Enco. It had an obscene amount of runout, like .015" or so. A phone call to Enco took care of that problem. . .
     
  3. Ray C

    Ray C United States Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Virtually all of the suppliers you mentioned are importers who get their products from several manufacturers in China. Very possibly there's only 1-2 manufacturers making those and they put any lable on it as requested by the importer.

    Yes, Shars = Discount Machine. I bought most of my collets from Shars and had no problems at all. I purchased some expensive ones with hex holes from Tavers and the slots were way too narrow.

    NOTE: It was recently mentioned in another post that it's OK to remove the spindle alignment pin in R8 tooling. Don't remove the spindle pin for 5C tooling as most 5C mechanisms do not have a double-nut drawbar mechanism.


    Ray



     
  4. Jimsehr

    Jimsehr United States Active User Active Member

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    I think Frank Ford is right. Most 5c collets are all a home shop machinist needs. That said I think Hardinge is the top of the line.
    jimsehr
     
  5. Bill C.

    Bill C. United States Active User Active Member

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    That .015 run out makes one wonder were Quality Control was that day, ouch.
     
  6. davidh

    davidh United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    the place I get all my stub drills from, for you guys, shows them in their book as "precission 5C collets" I believe they are usa made as the catalog does not say "econo". they run about $8.50 each or so. . . . just sayin'
    I don't know if that's hi test as far as cost go, but as far a quality goes, I have heard no complaints except when I ship the wrong items to somebody :nono:
     
  7. epanzella

    epanzella United States Active User Active Member

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    I believe I got my 5c's from CDCO. Runout doesn't go over .001 on any of them. Any more runout than that and you might as well use a three jaw.
     
  8. billooms

    billooms United States Active User Active Member

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    Thanks to all for the feedback.

    Bill
     
  9. machinist18

    machinist18 United States Active User Active Member

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    I have had good luck over the last 20 plus years with everything I have boughten from MSC corporation. Call 1-800-645-7270 and ask for a catalog. I have never been disappointed and they have a price range of all tooling so you should be able to find something in your price range. Good Luck.
     
  10. Mutt

    Mutt United States Active Member Active Member

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    Does this "place" ya get your drills from have a 11/32" 5C hex collet? $8.50 or even $15 sounds reasonable to me
     
  11. Kernbigo

    Kernbigo United States Active User Active Member

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    i use harding, they are great, enco is ok
     
  12. mksj

    mksj Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I have 5C collets from Lyndex, some older Enco (Taiwan), Shar's and used a set from CDCO. Lyndex and Royal are a little better made, but almost a bit too tight in my Bison 5C chuck. I have a bunch of Shar's/Enco's etc. too fill in the holes, they where reasonably priced and are well made, my only gripe is the sizes is not deeply etched into the collet face. It makes it a bit more difficult to read. The CDCO set is inexpensive and works well, my friend purchased the 1/64 set and I have used them on his lathe. My recommendation would be to get the CDCO full 1/64 increment full set for around $200, best bang for the buck. Because the 5C has very limited clamping range, I frequently use the an odd size collet. Example would be holding a thread or something that has been knurled. If you are just looking at a standard 1/16" increment set then maybe spring for a Lyndex or Royal, I started out with that and it was around $140. Then I had to back fill all the other sizes. The Enco are the older Taiwan ones which I feel are better quality than the newer Interstate (now MSC).

    All my collets meet the spec of 0.0006" TIR or better, most of my work is done within a few inches of the chuck, as the 5C collet system seems to have a bit more axial wobble (TIR) as one gets further away from the chuck. They are great for small stock, 1" and under, the other day I had to make a washer .240 diameter, .125" cnter and 0.050" thick. Using the 5C collet it was easy work.
    20151218_132447.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2016
    Ulma Doctor likes this.
  13. KMoffett

    KMoffett United States Active User Active Member

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    So I have some (Enco) that are not "sprung" open. Any recommendations on correcting this?

    Ken
     
  14. firestopper

    firestopper H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    As mentioned by others, the CDCO was one of the best bang for the money. For around $200 (delivered) you get a nice 65 piece set and with a decent 5C chuck with true-set you can get little TIR.
    IMG_1267.JPG
    A precision ground arbor was used to check TIR. The second photo shows the arbor turning with virtually no change on the indicator.
    IMG_1269.JPG IMG_1273.JPG
    Again, best bang for the buck.
     
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  15. Dan_S

    Dan_S Active User Active Member

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    I have a 1/32nds set from Mari Tool. They are not cheap at ~$550, but they are very high quality. Max runout is listed at at .0004", but i have yet to see 1 that was even half that. If memory serves all Franks products are made in his Chicago land facility, or imported from Germany.

    Orange vise recently did a video about the facillity.


    Something to keep in mind is that a 1/32" isn't even really needed. Bar stock usually only comes in 1/16" sizes, and in some ways is more cost effective to buy project specific collets as needed.
     
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  16. jbolt

    jbolt United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    It interesting that Hardinge used to be the gold standard for 5C collects. They only guarantee max 0.001" TIR for their standard collets($65) but also offer "special accuracy" collets ($82) guaranteed to have 0.0002" TIR or less. Hardinge does offer their collets in decimal sizes from 0.016" to 1.030" in 0.001" increments.

    I have the full 1/64th set from CDCO, some Lydex, Royal and a few Hardinge. The CDCO are fine for most things but I have found some inconsistencies with the threads on the collets. I also have a few CDCO collets that have run-out greater than advertised. I like the 1/64th set because there are always times when a part has an odd OD and I can usually fine a collet that will work.

    I also keep a few machinable E-collets on hand for odd ball parts.
     
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  17. BGHansen

    BGHansen United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I have the full 1/64" set from CDCO which I recall going from 1/8" - 1 1/8". I bought the 1/16" - 7/64" ones from CME Tools in the Detroit area. I haven't checked them all out for run out, but all I have checked have been under 0.0008".

    I suspect that Hardinge tries to make all of their collets to the "special accuracy" TIR. Quality Control checks kick out the ones that aren't up to snuff which are not scrapped, they're just marketed as "standard collets". That's a common practice for many manufactured items.

    Bruce
     
  18. rgray

    rgray Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    After stripping the threads on my drawbar twice I made 0-1 hardened end pieces. In the process of doing this I noticed the thread size difference.
    I now have two separate drawbars with different thread size and all small collets are marked with red dykem so I know what drawbar to use with what collet.

    All of my collets are CDOC other than a 1' lyndex. The 14mm, 5/8,1 1/16 and one of two 1/16 have small threads. Wondering if other sets have the same sizing but since I have 2 1/16 collets and one is small thread and one normal then it is probably random.

    The small thread 5/8 was probably the one that ruined my drawbar threads in the past as that is a size I use offten.
    Not worth a picture but here it is anyway, and upside down even. Merry Christmas.!

    20161216_075144.jpg
     
  19. petertha

    petertha Canada H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I have a D1-4 direct mount Bison 5C collet chuck purchased a while back. Its very well made, typical Bison, but it has 0.001" run-out (measured on the collet face not using collets or pins or anything else that might influence reading). So if whatever collet brand you buy is also out 0.001" for example & they happen to align out of favour, that's collective 0.002". Of course the stars could align & they negate one another with zero runout, the question is can you control it? :) If I had to do it again I think I'd invest a few more $ and buy the SetTru system where the chuck is dialed in concentric & it eliminates the chuck side of the equation. Its a different system & back plate adapter.Bison is expensive. I used to be a fan boy when they were reasonably priced but they are just stupid now, at least where I live. Not to dissuade you, but if you consider a 'settable' system might offer advantages, there are other brands, knock-offs & big name that use this feature under their own label.
     

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