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[How do I?] Drum Switch Wiring Done, Help Switching Dual Voltage Motor To 115v (1 Phase)

Discussion in 'ELECTRICAL ISSUES - POWER YOUR MACHINES & SHOP' started by MasaAMD, Jan 7, 2017.

  1. MasaAMD

    MasaAMD United States Steel Registered Member

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    ***Edit***
    Drum switch wiring has been resolved. See post #4 (http://www.hobby-machinist.com/thre...tage-motor-to-115v-1-phase.54152/#post-449303) for wiring diagram. New issue is trying to switch the motor over to 115v
    ***Edit***

    So I've been rebuilding a new to me Zip-Cut vertical mill over in the Restoration Forum and its time to wire up the motor.

    In hopes that it was wired correctly from the previous owner, I cleaned up the terminal ends and tried it out. No dice. Only CCW rotation and it sounds terrible when trying to reverse the switch (which still spins the motor CCW)

    I am able to wire the switch to start the motor without issue. I can also get the motor to reverse direction by switching the black and red wires inside the motor itself.

    How do I wire the switch to enable either direction?

    Here are the wiring diagrams
    IMG_20170107_014128.jpg
    IMG_20170107_014107.jpg
    IMG_20170107_002007.jpg IMG_20170107_012050.jpg
    IMG_20170106_235146.jpg

    Here is the original motor wiring. To reverse direction I swap the small red wire with the small black wire.
    IMG_20170107_012156.jpg

    Thanks in advance! If anyone needs better pictures or clarification I will do my best to provide it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2017
  2. BGHansen

    BGHansen United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Looks like you should hook the black wire to the drum switch terminal 1 and the red to terminal 4. Then run a jumper from the motor connections that the red/black wires are hooked to to terminals 2 and 3 of the drum switch.

    We'll call the current terminal on the motor with the red wire "A" and the one the black wire is tied to "B". Tie "A" with a jumper to terminal 2 of the drum switch, tie "B" to terminal 3 of the drum switch.

    With that set up in Forward terminals 1 & 2 are tied together along with terminals 3 & 4. That'll tie the black wire on terminal 1 to the jumper running to motor terminal "A" and the red wire on terminal 4 to motor terminal "B".

    When in Reverse, terminals 1 (black lead) and terminals 3 (terminal "B") are tied together. Terminals 2 (motor terminal "A") is tied to terminal 4 (motor red lead).

    I'm having trouble reading the motor plate photo, but if you are wiring it for 110V, you'll want to tie the black lead (hot lead) from the wall to terminal 5 or 6 of the drum switch and the opposite lead to where ever the motor "wants" to have the 110V feed wire running to it. That way you're switching the hot feed ON/OFF and not leaving the motor live. No problem leaving the ground lead hooked to the motor at all times.

    Well, that's my read on it but I'm no electrician! Good luck, looking forward to seeing the finished mill!

    Bruce
     
  3. MasaAMD

    MasaAMD United States Steel Registered Member

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    Here's a little clarification on the wiring diagram and the CW side of the switch.
    IMG_20170107_173136.jpg

    Here's a better picture of the switch wiring
    drum.s7.gif
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2017
  4. MasaAMD

    MasaAMD United States Steel Registered Member

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    Breakthrough! So I was able to simplify the diagram and figure out the wiring. Now it spins in both directions perfectly! Do not reference this diagram, L2 and L1 are backwards, see the corrected diagram below.
    IMG_20170107_201052.jpg

    Here is a cleaned up diagram for reference. (This is the revised diagram. There were errors on the previous version)
    wiring v2.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2017
    hman, Ulma Doctor and BGHansen like this.
  5. MasaAMD

    MasaAMD United States Steel Registered Member

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    Alright well I'm almost there. After getting everything all wired up and spinning in both directions I decided to test it spinning the spindle. On the smaller motor side pulleys it could spin the spindle, but on the larger ones it would turn very slowly or stall. After taking another look at the motor wiring, it looks as though the motor was previously wired for 230v. Using the plate as reference I swapped the wires to the 115v positions. Only issue is there are a few extra wires not listed. And leaving them in their original spots wont allow the motor to start after moving the other wires.

    Here is the wiring as of now
    IMG_20170108_014746.jpg
    IMG_20170108_014903.jpg
    IMG_20170108_014941.jpg

    Wires in question at the yellow wire on L1 and the orange wire on L1 (I had moved it from the center tap to L2. This allows the motor to start, but it heats up very fast so I stopped running it immediately)

    Also not in the picture, there was a jumper from L1 to 5. I removed it, as I think it was for 230v operation.

    Referencing the plate: 1 should be white, 2 black, 3 blue, 4 red, 5 not used. To reverse directions switch black and red which I have wired in the switch.
    IMG_20170107_014107.jpg
    IMG_20170107_002007.jpg
     
  6. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    I'm studying your diagrams but I'm having trouble visualizing which terminals the run windings are. Obviously the red and black are the start leg.
    What is that wire marked "S" on your sketch? It looks also that that model of drum switch isn't the optimum type to be using here, but I think it can be made to work.
    You say you can connect the motor without the drum switch and get proper operation both forward and reverse?
    Mark S.
     
  7. MasaAMD

    MasaAMD United States Steel Registered Member

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    I was looking at my drawings and I had a couple of errors on them that might have been causing some confusion. Here are the corrected drawings. I also sketched an easier to read version of the motor plate and connections. "S" represents the starting circuit. The black and red leads are from the motor and are used to reverse the direction. Power to the motor is through terminals L2 and L1. The one thing that has me confused is whether 3 is associated to the L2 terminal branch or the center post which I'm calling "S". They print it on the board in the middle of the two.
    wiring v2.jpg plate v2.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2017
  8. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    I'm not sure if we are on the same page- the black and red leads are the starting leg, I thought. Maybe I'm wrong. What I am not getting is what are the run windings?
    There are two of them and they want to be in phase and in parallel. Start leg across the whole thing. I don't suppose you have a VOM with a low ohms range?
    Mark S.
    I should add that if there's a thermal protector it gets even more complicated
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2017
  9. MasaAMD

    MasaAMD United States Steel Registered Member

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    I think you are right, the black and red leads are the starting legs. That would make sense that if you reverse them you can change the current flow through the starting winding, changing the direction of the rotation. I think the main run windings are L2 and L1.

    So if I am understanding correctly. the start winding (red and black) should be connected to L2 and L1 (possible run windings)? I do have a meter, and I will measure the resistance across the different legs to try to identify which are which.
     
  10. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    I'm looking for a diagram I just saw that makes all this much clearer- I'll post it or re-draw it, I don't have a great schematic drawing program so bear with me..
    Mark S.
    PS the start winding and the start leg are two different animals; I THOUGHT that the red and black were the start leg proper which is start winding, capacitor and centrifugal switch all in series. Which would go across the line L1 and L2, and be swapped to reverse rotation.
    Mark S.
     
  11. MasaAMD

    MasaAMD United States Steel Registered Member

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    I see, that makes a lot more sense now. I think I have been using the wrong terminology, and I think you are right that the red and black are the start leg. When the motor is not running the centrifugal switch should be closed so I should be able to measure the resistance though that whole leg.

    Thank you for all your help btw I really appreciate it!
     
  12. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    Yes exacta mundo. You should be able to measure a low resistance thru the start leg.
    Here's a diagram which shows the idea: I don't know if any of the colors/numbers match your motor- looks like the red and black do..Centrifugal is misspelled- not me StartrandRunwindingsstandard-1.jpg
     
  13. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    So the problem is twofold here: we need to verify that your windings are OK and then secondly, we need to arrange the drum switch to handle reversing the start leg and open L1 or L2 when in the "Off" position. Did you say the motor works fine in both directions with proper torque when wired by itself? If one of the two run windings was not connected, you might get the low torque problem you described.
    Mark S.
    Correction: your ohmmeter would show a "twitch" when measuring the start leg because of the action of the capacitor. Initially a low reading which then climbs towards infinity. If everything is good.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2017
  14. MasaAMD

    MasaAMD United States Steel Registered Member

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    Alright everything's apart time to measure the resistance.
    IMG_20170108_202052.jpg

    From left to right: Black, Orange, Blue, Yellow, Red, White

    Wires on the right are from the switch.
     
  15. MasaAMD

    MasaAMD United States Steel Registered Member

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    When I was testing the motor originally I did not change any of its wiring, only the wiring from the switch to the motor. I was able to get it to run in both directions, but it did have very low torque. I can't say for sure that it was wired correctly from the get go, and I am willing to assume it wasn't since everything else wasn't either.
     
  16. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    OK so we are starting from ground zero here. You should put the motor back like the plate and test it without the drum switch, make sure the motor is good.
    MS
     
  17. MasaAMD

    MasaAMD United States Steel Registered Member

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    We have success! The drawing you posted matches the motor exactly. I wired it up as per the diagram and I have full torque in both directions and I can hear the centrifugal switch kick off on start and back on when the the motor winds down. Also the motor stays nice and cool to luke-warm when running under different pulley load.
    IMG_20170108_211212.jpg
     
  18. MasaAMD

    MasaAMD United States Steel Registered Member

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    That is exactly what I saw on the meter. All windings measure OK when using the diagram for the correct terminal ends.
     
  19. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    Excellent, so the motor is good. I still don't quite follow the diagram on the motor cover plate though. It looks like one run winding is blue/white and the other is orange/yellow. But why they leave 5 unhooked for 110 I don't follow. There may be a thermal protector in there, which they don't use for 110v. I think we just went through this before with a Baldor motor for another member. But anyhow, we just have to deal with the drum switch and you're golden. Subsequently...zzz
    Mark S.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2017
  20. MasaAMD

    MasaAMD United States Steel Registered Member

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    Yeah I completely agree with you on the plate, more confusing than it needs to be. The drawing you posted matches the motor perfectly though and I will be using it as reference from here on out.

    I just tested the switch with the black (hot) from the outlet to L1 and the neutral (white) directly connected to L2. Switches on and off perfectly.
     
  21. MasaAMD

    MasaAMD United States Steel Registered Member

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    So I just sketched out the wiring according to the switch cover and as far as I can tell it looks like it should work.

    Success! I have wired the switch according to the split phase, split capacitor, capacitor start diagram in post #3. Hot from the wall connects to L1 and neutral is connected to L2 in the motor. Then L2 is brought to the switch via the blue 16 gauge wire on L2.
    IMG_20170108_223605.jpg
    IMG_20170108_232233.jpg
    IMG_20170108_232253.jpg IMG_20170108_232302.jpg

    Thanks so much for your help!
     
  22. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    Actually my cat did all the work, I just helped keep her paws on the keys, but you're welcome. :cool 2:
    MS
    I was going to mention, using green wire for current carrying wires is not good practice- should be for grounding only. You should in fact, have a separate ground for the unit in addition to the one in the power cord to be totally safe. I also noticed you've got the incoming neutral and hot line reversed from the way I was going to suggest, but either way works. I would prefer to have the hot line opened when the switch is off.
    Have fun with your mill...
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2017
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  23. MasaAMD

    MasaAMD United States Steel Registered Member

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    Thanks for the tips! On grounding the motor, would grounding the frame to a nearby mounting bolt on the mill be acceptable?

    Yeah, after wiring everything up I did realize using green for neutral was not ideal. Since this is my machine only I can live with it.

    I'm not sure I follow about the hot being live to the motor though. Hot comes up from the wall through the black wire and connects to position 5 on the switch and is open until the switch is thrown in either direction. Neutral from the wall comes up into the switch with the white wire and is directly connected via a butt-connector to the green wire and then to L2 on the motor. L2 is brought back to the switch via the blue wire for reversing and is connected to position 2 on the switch.
     
  24. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    Hmmm maybe I'm mistaken about the hot wire- I'll look at it again- you've got the idea though.
    For the grounding, yes there should be a wire from the motor to the mill but also a dedicated wire from the mill to a water pipe or similar ground.
    Mark S.
     

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