Enco Mill Drill Stand Needs Help!

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joe_m

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I have an Enco mill-drill. I have a ton of tooling, R8 collets, and end-mill holders, a cheap vise and two sets of clamps. I'd like to use it eventually to make metal versions of wooden moulding planes. I've got a plan in my head for a version with replacable bottoms for different shapes of moulding.

The above paragraph is my ENTIRE knowledge of mills and milling.

I spend 6 hours today doing a simple task - the base for my new lathe QCTP needed milled down to size and a rabbet on two sides so I could mount it on the cross-slide. First I had to torque everythng down like crazy to keep the head from shifting. Then the only way to get a halfway clean cut was to put it in reverse and make climb cuts. I used three new end-mills. The first one cut nicely until I burned it. The second one actually snapped. (1/2" double end-mill and it snapped like a twig. The third finished the job, but barely. And this was all in soft chinese steel.

My biggest problem is that the factory stand that came with the mill is junk. It vibrates like crazy and then the mill itself vibrates and shakes. I need to make a better stand and quick. I don't weld, and don't have the money at this time to buy (and learn how to use) a welder. I am a woodworker though, so I'm thinking I can make a big wooden box as a form, scrounge up some rebar from behind the shed, and pour a solid cement stand 2' x2' x3' tall. Is this feasible? Is it extreme? Is there an easier solution? Is there something else out there made of cement (or iron, or cryptonite) that I can probably find cheaply and repurpose?

I'm just a bit frustrated. I'm sure I can learn to use it a lot quicker if I didn't have to fight the machine, and since I can't afford a 2-ton mill at this time, It's going to have to be with the mill/drill.

thanks in advance for any help
Joe
 
A 2' X 2' X 3' block of concrete will way 1620 lbs. You better choose your location carefully!
 
If I can bolt the mill/drill to 3/4 ton of cement then it won't be going anywhere. But that number would be for sky-scraper grade concrete poured by pros. I'm talking about me, a wheelbarrow, and a trailer full of those 60psi bags from the local Home Depot - which would be closer to 900 pounds plus the rebar. In any case, I'm serious - I need plans for a solid no-flex, no-shake stand. I know where it's going, I don't care if I need an engine hoist to move it. It's not like I'm going to be wheeling it in/out of position every day - it's set it and forget it so I just want it to be as solid as can be.
 
The concrete calculator I pulled up from Lowes for the last little project I did calculated 27 ea. 60 lbs. bags of quickcrete. Bear in mind a cubic yard of concrete is 3' X 3' X 3', just slightly larger than your base. I don't write the laws of physics, but we all have to live by them. There is a nice excel calculator at this site;
http://www.renovation-headquarters.com. I would just upload the spread sheet but it is copyrited.
 
Okay. Build two boxes. One 8" less than the other in all dimensions. The smaller box sits on the floor inside the big one. Bend your rebar into squares that fit into the space between the boxes. You'll end up with a concrete block with walls 4" thick and a top 8" thick. A lot lighter and cheaper to build, but still plenty solid enough.

Just in case you will ever need to move it, cut strips of 1/8" plywood 1" wider than the thickness of your form plywood. Tap or tack the strips around the bottom of the outer box so that they will leave a 1/8" x 1" recess around the outside at floor level. Then, if you need to move it, you can make up a frame of angle iron that slips into the recess and allows you to lift the block with suitable equipment.

One last point: cover the floor with a sheet of plastic before you pour. That will keep the block from sticking permanently - just in case.
 
Joe,

All of the problems you've described could have been the result of operator error so I wouldn't spend a lot of time building a new base. Lets take a look at what happened:

The burned end mill was caused by too high an rpm and/or too fast of a feed rate. A 1/2" end mill cutting steel should be run at about 800 rpm. Watch the chips as they come off and keep the feed rate slow enough that they don't come off brown or blue.

The broken end mill was likely caused by too high a feed rate for the depth of cut, or it possibly could have grabbed the part when you tried climb milling. Climb milling can be hazardous on a light, non-rigid machine. If you try it, make sure to lock the table axis that you aren't feeding and drag the lock on the one you are feeding, otherwise the cutter can pull the part and the table toward it.

Not sure what you mean by "put it in reverse". Hopefully you meant the feed, not the spindle.

Lastly, are you sure that soft Chinese steel was actually soft? I would be surprised if soft steel was used on a tool holder.

Tom
 
Silly q Joe but are you sure all the feet on the existing stand are in touch with the floor. A quick google search turned up your complaint about the stand and so it doesn't seem to be a major problem, seems that some consider it suboptimal though and probably needs some work. I have a hard time believing the stand was a major contributor to your problems. No one likes a cheesy stand though! google "Enco Mill Drill Stand flimsy " and you'll find mention of people filling theirs with concrete which don't sound prudent to me.

About the head and torquing it down. I have a Jet so it is very similar. Usually for light work (like your project) I leave the top and bottom through bolts just loose enough to move the head and only work the handled knob. For heavy work I tighten down all clamping bolts. This has worked well for me. Mine is old and perhaps they clamp better with age/use.

I have a rank beginner sharing my machine and I leave him at 280RPM for everything as it is much easier on the tooling and leaves a feed rate that is easier to control. Since it is set to 280 that is usually where I run it also for everything 1/2" and over it's not worth the change. with HSS cutters you should be seeing at most light straw color swarf and certainly nothing hotter but plain silver unheated is fine too since we are in no hurry.

Generally the T nut blanks are pretty easy to machine so it should be problem free though not being held down could be an issue in the breakage etc. When I do them I shim them up off the table to avoid autographing and clamp the ends where the clamps are out of the way. Perhaps even one from the side opposite the first cuts to be moved to the other side later. The beginner in my shop was astounded at how poor a job cheap vices do on work holding and I now have him clamping everything possible to the table. It probably took 50$ worth of tooling for that epiphany.

Hope it helped!

Steve
 
Tom, I'm sure there was a lot of operator error involved, still most of the chips - especially at the beginning when the first mill was sharp - were nice and shiny and consistent in size.
I used reverse on the spindle, and on the feed - I tried forward spindle, left right feed, reverse spindle left right feed - forwared spindle front/back feed and so on. I figured I was doing something wrong so I kept trying different options. The only thing I didn't change in all that time was the pulley speed - I left it at 770 My best cuts were with the spindle in reverse and the feed from left to right. This kept the shearing cut of the end mill putting downward pressure on the piece and gave slightly less vibration. I'm still trying to figure out how deep a cut I can make with these things. I saw a blog where a guy made a 1/2" cut in aluminum 3 passes on the same machine. I'm sitting here taking slivers thinner than my fingernail.
I know the stand is a good part of the problem because I can take the top off (to get a better view), turn it on, and without trying to cut anything I can watch as the pulleys and top all become a blur because as soon as it picks up speed the whole tool starts rocking. I can turn the machine off, and with one finger I can rock the entire mill on the base while watching the base flex. Hopefully if I can get the mill set on a solid foundation I can stop worrying about it and start concentrating on technique. I kept googling last night and found another thread from another forum from 2003 that mentioned the same stand and putting a couple bags of cement inside it. That thread referenced yet another forum post somewhere with pics so I'm still looking. It seems like it might be an easy answer if I can find a way not to block the top few inches of the compartment, so I can still get to the retaining bolts, then I could just turn it on its side and fill the inside with cement and close the door and let it dry.

It would be great to find a retired machinist down here to give some lessons but I haven't found one yet.

EDIT: Tom, I reread your thread and saw the part about locking the unused feed. Thanks for that tip.
Steve - your post was 13 minutes before mine, but wasn't showing when I started to respond the first time. I guess it got stuck in one of the internet tubes? In any case, thanks for the tips. I don't know how your jet head is fastened, but my mill has two bolts at the back that hold it to the column. when they are loose you can move the head left or right. I don't know why you'd want to, but you can. I have to tighten those 2 bolts super-tight or as soon as the mill hits the workpiece the whole head jogs to the side. And I know the importance of a good vice now. I learned that by putting the cheapest of drill press vises on the table and watching it break in two when the mill pulled tried to yank it off the table. So now I clamp everything I can to the table itself unless I have to use the other vise I have left, a slightly beefier one than the first but still not a true milling vise.
 
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Joe,

Regarding the forward and reverse thing; most end mills are made right hand, meaning that they are designed to cut turning clock-wise looking at them from above. The term "forward" and reverse" don't necessarily mean clock-wise and counter-clockwise on a mill because of the back gear, so make sure the spindle is always rotating clock-wise when milling or drilling. Try it again using this and my other suggestions plus get your mill on a solid surface and it should work out much better.

Tom
 
I have a Enco mill with the lite base on it and I set it level with shims on concrete anchors then sealed the bottom with tape and poured a cement slurry under all the way around before I put bottom shelf in. No noise at All, BUT like everyone said make sure you have it where you want it before you pour the slurry and it wont take a lot to do the job.;)
 
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