How common is it for a machinist (by trade) to not know how to thread on a lathe?

After digesting all of this, I am the lucky one. As a boy one of my bike pit stops was the well respected
Paragon Gear Marine Works. Had the Royalty to roam in there (uncle) worked there. As a kid the brain
multiplys things but I see white hair gold rim glasses with a loop aprons on, with rules and pencils in
pockets a million lathes shapers mills monster presses a foundry. Didnt own a Brownie yet but I still
can see it, wood oiled flooring old light globes hunter ceiling fans, black lunch boxes does anyone
remember at 12 noon, steam whistle could be heard for miles. My biggest problem "it didnt last long
enough". Im now a white head with a loop with ruler in pocket, dont know metrics (wasnt in our school)
dont have DROs maybe someday, old eyes. Then the root of winning 2 wars, those were the true
Rosey the riveters, B17 pilots had their lives entrusted right down to the machinist I know my uncle
was a machinist early 40s, army, one screwup somebodys life is at stake. He said it was a respected
job on the base even earned rank. So the machinist has to master man and machine has to come up
with impossible solutions and make those workable. Myself pushing a button then take a nap same
thing every day is just not me. Here I never know what walks through the door and usually a
challange at best. I must be Keith Fenners twin nothing new no high tech just brilliant solutions.
And I do not claim to be one but I have not yet said I cant do it. All has opions thats mine.
 
strantor said:
The flying car tech is here; has been for a long time. Flying cars have been made, but they aren't practical. They didn't take off (pun intended) because there was no consumer interest, for the price tag.

Those entities with the money are the ones who make things happen. For the flying car, the entity was the general populace, who can't afford the technology. You talk about a replicator, that's a different entity. That's industry. Industry will take out infinite loans to buy things with infinite price tags if there is a promise of infinite profit. The 3D laser scanner already exists just like the 2D laser scanner in my HP 3-in-1 scanner/printer/copier. The 3D metal printer already exists just like the 2D ink printer in my HP 3-in-1 scanner/printer/copier. The only thing that needs to be one is to tie the two together and put a "COPY" button on it, and voila! we have a Star Trek replicator. All the hard work has been done!

...

wait, a quick google search reveals that the 3D copier already exists, but it doesn't do metal yet. They have 3D metal printers and they have a 3D copier. I'm guessing the 3D metal copier probably already exists in an R&D lab somewhere, just getting the kinks worked out of it.
Click to expand...

My opinion only: Production work will continue to migrate overseas or to CNC. 3D printing is always going to be for niche stuff because it's fundamentally slow. That being said, I think there will turn out to be a lot of niches.

I suspect that a lot of people who are active on this board would give a lot to work in a job shop. There will always be a need for people who have the right mix of technical skills and business savvy to provide repair services, or small production runs for the folks who do the physical stuff that makes civilization possible. I have a deep and abiding respect for everyone who works to keep that knowledge alive.

However, it's not stupid or lazy necessarily for a young person going into metal fabrication to fail to learn manual machine operation if his objective is to stay employed and support his family. The hard truth of life in this world always is you either learn the skills that are in demand, or you find a different line of work. How many jobs are available that use manual skills compared to CNC production work? I really don't know, but I suspect the production work is the majority of the current employment.

My training in school as a chemist emphasized a lot of hands-on bench chemist work. Today, that's the least part of what I do. I get paid to keep extremely detailed records and to run a mass spectrometer. The old, manual methods are fascinating and it is all being lost. It's too bad, but I have to keep my focus on what the boss wants done.

Walt
 
This topic caught my attention due to an experience I had several years ago, so I thought I'd share. About 2 years after finishing my apprenticeship,I became the lone machinist on afternoon shift. Shortly after that, the company closed it's rebuild shop and the last machinist from that area was placed with me in the toolroom. This fellow had the title off machinist for well over 30 years and could not operate the mill. Apparently, this company had a past practice of hiding people in easy jobs instead of falling them.
This resulted in me being forced into training a machinist that had the title longer than I had been alive. Thankfully, he retired 3 months later. I spent most days during that time fighting the urge to squeeze his throat until the twitching stopped.
 
I have interviewed employes over the years and found that most could do very little on manual machines.
The guys that I learn from could do a vast number of things on manual machines that most can only do on cnc today. I have chatted with machinists that worked in the trade for 15 years or better that could not even run a lathe. All they ever did in there show was use a mill or surface grinder. No cross training what so ever. That is not the case in my small 3 man shop. Today you could be designing or programming. Tomorrow it could be welding or running the forging press. The next you could be doing die work or running the punch press. Cross training and schooling are very important here.
 
A visitor to my shop a few months ago saw this and said ( I could write the program but I could not make it )
I made me feel a little smug, But you see I cant write a program. am I required at all?
I think the answer comes when the programer brakes something and cant repair it.
P1010270.JPG

Perhaps I am just to old.

Brian.

P1010270.JPG
 
pdentrem said:
What it comes down to is definitions or distinctions between different jobs and methods.

1. Machinist, this is that we are most likely to think of. Old school, came up through apprentice programs and runs all machines. Works from drawings and use hand tools as well as machines. Might be specialized on a machine or two, but can work anywhere in the shop if needs to.

2. What I may with your premission a Modern/Current/Retrained Machinist. Old school running the new CNC stuff.

3. Programmer/CNC Operator, this person can program the CNC to do the job, either for himself or for the floor. He has to know how to do the job and which tools and processes involved etc. Still a machinist in most peoples views I believe.

4. CNC Operator. No training other than push Go/Stop. Change tools and feed the machine. Not a machinist.

I hope this makes sense. It is a close as I can get to what it seems the thread is pointing to.

Pierre
Click to expand...



Wow, what a can of worms! I think Pierre's definitions make the most sense, but I will add one to the list. I'm not sure what to call myself, so let's try 'Reverter'. I am mostly a Programmer/CNC Operator, but I choose to revert to old school techniques whenever I can, picking the brain of any (really) old/experienced guys whenever I can. To address the question of the thread, I have never, in 17 years of machining, had to (or yet learned how to) single point thread on a manual lathe. It will be learned when I add a lathe to my home shop (hopefully this spring), but the career I enjoy in machining simply doesn't require it. Am I a 'real' machinist? You're darn right I am! I can make anything our ($@#^) engineers can think up, no matter how poorly designed (don't get me started), and I can (yes, manually) retrofit anything they change, no matter how tight the tolerance. I've begun tooling my own (manual) home shop, and I am quite proud of what my years of experience has left me to be able to accomplish. To be able to think up some part or peice in your mind and then know how to bring your thoughts into existence is a rush indeed! I've created too many such projects over the years, using too many 'types' of machining, to sit still while someone calls me a mere 'operator', and still I've never threaded on a manual. I also seem to possess a (treasured) God-given gift of being a details oriented person, which has helped my career to no end. Unfortunately, I'm more and more surrounded by young kids who just don't care to do a great job. I work with a guy who really would make a good mechanic, as he tries sooo hard to 'crank out the work'. He just can't seem to get the finesse side of it, and we have to fix a lot of his work.
I fully agree with 4gsr (and others in shops around the country), that I wouldn't make it if I had to come back to oil country (grew up in Bay City, TX.). How many of us have seen a legitimately experienced machinist hire on in our shop and have to be babysat until he figured out the type of work that we do? I learned early on not to 'run my mouth' about what I think I know, for there is an entire UNIVERSE of machining out there, and none of us will ever get to know it all. I've used both CNC and manual mills, both CNC and manual lathes, screw machines, a water jet (very cool), EDM, heated presses, surface grinders, 4th and 5th axis attachments, and more, but I know that I've only scratched the surface. I'm blessed to be in a shop where everyone is expected to program their own job assignments (although Mastercam is NOT the easiest CAD program to learn). The last company I worked for was 'typical America'; just push the button and make us money. I was fortunate enough to see past this mentality, and made a habit of bugging everyone who'd listen to teach me some 'real machining skills' (Dean Paul, if you ever happen to read this, THANK YOU for your patience, although I do remember you laughing at how long it took me to learn to tram in the head of the Bridgeport).
I just learned (off the internet-thanks tubalcain) the math to be able to use my new (to me) dividing head. What's next? Single point threading, of course! Then ball turning (can't wait to learn that one!)! I learned to knurl on my own about six months ago, but I need to practice when I get my lathe. I have a book somewhere about metal spinning on a lathe. Hmmmm. OH, and then there's cutting tapers! I should get started right now on designing my own one-of-a-kind set of screwdrivers. Maybe after I replicate the mushroom shifter knob from my dad's '53 Chevy pickup (for my flatbed truck)! DADGUMIT!!! Thanks a lot, fellas! It's 1:30 AM and my brain is just getting going! Gotta go!
 
The first Marine said to the second Marine, "you should have been here in the old corps."

In building boats the step between the plans and the building is "lofting" literally laying out the lines of the hull on the floor of the sail loft by springing long wood battens around points on the floor to proof the plans making sure the curves are all fair. Then measurements are taking directly off the floor to make the frames.

With the advent of design programs CAD lofting is regrettably and almost universally obsolete, but the lines of those old wooden boats will never be.


Bob (semper-fi)
 
There's always gonna be needs for manual lathe/mill machinists until CNC machines become affordable at the level of affordability comfortable for just about every ordinary metalworking hobby person just like owning a used car or a bicycle.
With CNC it's now possible for a person, with excellent parts/materials/drafting knowledge and experience /computer software design skills and education, machine programming training and fairly good common sense or intelligence to machine a good part using CNC machines even if he has not operated a manual mill or a lathe before.

A CNC machine is actually a robot, capable of doing exactly what the programmer wants it to do. If it's already set up to have everything it needs it could do its job exactly as instructed.
All the CNC operator needs to do is to make sure all instructions are given to that robotic CNC machine for it to do its job.

Let's not confuse the job of a CNC operator to the designer of the parts to be machined. Design is normally not the job (even though it still be possible that it is) of a CNC or manual machine operator. Plans/blueprints/instructions are guides usually given to the manual machinist or even CNC operator by someone other than himself.


How many good engineers still need slide rules or T-squares with protractor, to do complex calculations and design changes when he needs to finalize a design given that programmable electronic calculators or a math computer programs and 3D rendering software are now readily available and faster to use?
 
Last edited:
I can thread anything but i don't....i just don't make things that need machined threads any more ..sure i'll use taps and dies but that is it..
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top