Logan 2555 (12") - Oil in the Apron

[Wobbles]

Logan 2555 (12") Lathe - Oil in the apron

When I got my new (to me) Logan I rushed to YouTube, as I was taught to do by my 2 computer-savvy sons, to see what Logan videos were out there. There is really only one for my model... and it shows a guy installing bushings to tighten up the carriage handwheel. Since my handwheel flopped up and down about 1/4 inch I thought this might be a good idea. Further inspection revealed this mod had already been done on my machine, and so all I had to do was knock out the old bushings and pop in the new.

While I was in there, I started studying why these parts wear the way they did. (One of my job duties is root cause analysis.) Although I'm still awaiting the new bushings, it's already clear to me that the oil level within the apron is critical to reducing wear on these shafts and gears. Not only will the gear oil "climb" the gear sets to the highest gears, but will most probably also wet the cases, which will in turn, lube all the shafts too. I intend to run some tests when the apron is back together and I'll let you know.


However, the point of this post is to say if your lubrication chart shows oil is added to the apron, or you find a drain plug on the bottom of the apron, then you might just want to add some appropriate gear oil to the apron sump. Mine looks to take about 1/3 quart, so we're not talking about a huge investment. And too, consider that Logan is asking $125 for the handwheel shaft !! So repairs, due to lack of oil, can get expensive.

:thumbzup:

 

[RandyM]

Good info Wobbles. Sometimes maintenance can get over looked, especially with us weekenders. We use the machine a little here and a little there, not realizing how many hours have actually accumulated and before you know it, you have more than you should. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[JR49]

Woobles, this topic is very interesting to me. When I first got my Logan 2557 vh, a few months ago, I asked on this forum what type of oil/lube guys were using in the apron sump. Unfortunately, I got no answers, which made me think that not many members own these 2500 series (or for that matter any of the variable speed drive) Logans. That is why I was so excited to be able to help you with the chuck problem last week. Anyway, the logan manual doesn't specify any certian type of oil to use in the apron, HOWEVER, it goes on to say that whenever a lubrication point (there is a diagram) does not specify a particular oil you should "use a good machine oil no heavier than SAE #10 unless a lubricant is specified". Now I agree with you that, with all the gears and bushings it that apron, it seems that 90wt. gear oil would be a better choice, BUT, I was afraid that the heavier gear oil would cause the power feed clutch to slip. Do you have the 2555 manual? Its possible that the lube specification was mistakenly left off the reprint of my manual. What do you think about the clutch thing? And for that matter ARE THERE ANY OTHERS OUT THERE USING THESE LOGANS???? Wobbles and I would like to hear from you. Thanks, JR49

 

[richz]

I have a 6560 which I belive is the same apron. I am using Mobil DTE Heavy Medium (30wt) and have had no problems.

 

[Wobbles]

I didn't want to mention a particular oil, because 1) I'm new here, 2) an idiot, and 3) prone to getting all too carried away with things. But being an engineer, I did think it called for some Hypoid gear oil. So I used some 70/90W gear oil I had laying around. Filling to the level plug took 150cc. I wasn't concerned about this choice because I intend to take it apart again soon to see if my ideas are correct on some other areas of investigation. Initial inspection says it's overkill since 1) the speeds are very low, 2) there's no heat, and 3) the loads are nothing like an automotive gearbox.

One thing is clear.... the oil climbs the worm gear that engages the pinion that rides the lead screw. The tiny amount that adheres to the lead screw pinion seems to lube the 2 bushings the pinion rides on. That lubrication is critical, because without it the 2 bushings take a beating. There was a teaspoon of oil in my apron, and my 2 bushes were worn slap out. (Is "slap out" a technical term we can use here?)

► One thing to come out of this, is that modern lathes use an oil sight glass on their apron. I think a visual indicator like that would be a HUGE plus for weekend users.

► One change I made was to add a magnet to the drain plug. This since my apron was full of metal bits.

► One thing I did not understand was the "cup" the clutch operates inside. It seems to keep the clutch out of the oil. But if the gears take oil to the clutch over time, then pretty soon the clutch is going to be the only wet item inside the apron.... with no way to drain it.


I keep fixing and she keeps running better. :thumbzup:

 

[Wobbles]

As a follow-up on detecting oil level...

Another way a person could cheaply, easily, and accurately detect the oil level inside the apron is to connect a clear piece of 1/8 plastic tubing to the drain plug, then run the tubing along the side of the apron. The tube could end under the deck of the cross-slide... or any position or place as long as it terminated well above the expected oil level. In this way the oil would also rise to a level inside the plastic tube equal to that of the oil in the apron.

This has the advantages of all the modifications being carried out on a inexpensive part (the drain plug, which on my Logan is a standard 1/4 NPT plug) rather than fancy machining on the front case of the apron. Additionally, oil level could be set to the owner's preferred oil level with a simple mark onto the tube with a Sharpie pen. That mark would also be much easier to move if needed.

Just a thought.

 

[AR1911]

I just use spindle oil, top it off every other use or so as I hit all the other oil points. Just takes a minute.

 

[Jubil]

Any thing is better than nothing. When I got my Cincinnati 15 x 48 traytop the sight glass showed it was in operating range and stayed there for a long time. Decided I needed to add some oil one day but the level didn't rise. OK so glass is stained. So I removed top and cleaned glass. Added oil (I use good quality tractor Hydraulic fluid, it's light and good in tractor transmissions). It leaked out around one of the lower shafts, so I just added oil every time I used it.
The feed began stopping intermittently then starting again, naturally cutting a small groove in my work.
I found a shop to cut two of the worst gears for me ($500). Then contacted a parts supplier online. They quoted over $20,000 for about 5 of the parts needed to do a good repair, not including bushings or shipping. Obviously they don't want to sell parts. They also sent me a quote for a new machine about the same size $18,500.
So now I plan to take measurements while it's dismantled, then whenever my gears are ready I'll assemble it and try my hand at making the shafts and sleeves etc to rebuild it, all are in bad condition.
Moral of the story; some of us ain't as smart as we think. $750 for a lathe, probably not the best deal I've ever made.

 

[Chuck K]

Woobles, this topic is very interesting to me. When I first got my Logan 2557 vh, a few months ago, I asked on this forum what type of oil/lube guys were using in the apron sump. Unfortunately, I got no answers, which made me think that not many members own these 2500 series (or for that matter any of the variable speed drive) Logans. That is why I was so excited to be able to help you with the chuck problem last week. Anyway, the logan manual doesn't specify any certian type of oil to use in the apron, HOWEVER, it goes on to say that whenever a lubrication point (there is a diagram) does not specify a particular oil you should "use a good machine oil no heavier than SAE #10 unless a lubricant is specified". Now I agree with you that, with all the gears and bushings it that apron, it seems that 90wt. gear oil would be a better choice, BUT, I was afraid that the heavier gear oil would cause the power feed clutch to slip. Do you have the 2555 manual? Its possible that the lube specification was mistakenly left off the reprint of my manual. What do you think about the clutch thing? And for that matter ARE THERE ANY OTHERS OUT THERE USING THESE LOGANS???? Wobbles and I would like to hear from you. Thanks, JR49

 

[Chuck K]

I have owned several logans over the years...machines built from the 40s to the early 60s. I currently have a 10" late 50s model....the model number escapes me right now. All of the machines 10-14" that I have owned had basically the same apron. Most of them were worn from lack of lubrication when I got them. It's pretty rare to find one that actually has oil in the apron. I've always used Vactra in them. I could be wrong but I think that's what Scott Logan recommends. I just fill them until the oil runs out the hole on the front of the apron. It's helpful to seal the bottom half of the apron when you reassemble it to keep the oil in.
Chuck