Makerspace machining classes, with no machines?

[MidniteMachinist]

Thanks for all the great suggestions!

Without an actual space, we're kind of in reverse "Field of Dreams" situation... Instead of "if you build it, they will come", we're more "if you can get them to come, you can build it". I know we'd be able to attract more interest if we make chips (whether hand work or machines), but I've gotta make the best of what we've got to work with, to build a community that's ready to rock once we actually have a space.

For using micrometers, I think a fun practical exercise would be to have a gauge block stack set up with the numbers covered, have everyone in the class measure it, and write down the number they get. Once everyone has gone, compare what numbers they all got, and see how different they are. A good way to demonstrate the importance of developing "feel", for accurate and consistent measurements.

Or, have a block of aluminum with a temperature strip on it, and show how temperature can affect the measurement... Holding it in the hand, maybe hit it with a heat gun.

I think that, absent actual machines, I'd like to come up with as many practical demonstrations as I can, for the first few classes. I figure that will hook more people, who would then be more interested in the meat-n-potatoes stuff.

 

[C-Bag]

It will be interesting to see how it goes. Not everybody is as enthusiastic about metrology as some us are. I know it’s part and parcel of being a machinist and that’s how a traditional machinist apprentice would start. My 87yld neighbor down the street apprenticed to be an instrument maker in the early 50’s in Germany. And for a year it was split between class and shop 8+hrs a day. Lots of handwork projects like making a machinist square all with hand saw and files. Then silver solder. Making something you can keep and use is the gateway IMHO.

 

[den-den]

I am thinking that your audience will be people who have a machine or two they inherited but don't know much about how to use it. In addition to metrology, layout and handwork you might have some discussions about sequence of operations or "how to make _ _ _" although this is very dependent on what machines are available. I wish you the best of luck. I can envision myself helping out in a maker space once in while but can not envision owning one or running one.

 

[Aaron_W]

I am thinking that your audience will be people who have a machine or two they inherited but don't know much about how to use it. In addition to metrology, layout and handwork you might have some discussions about sequence of operations or "how to make _ _ _" although this is very dependent on what machines are available. I wish you the best of luck. I can envision myself helping out in a maker space once in while but can not envision owning one or running one.

One of the useful things I got from taking a welding class, was a session going over the machines from the view point of buying. The types, what the specs actually mean, how the specs can be manipulated to seem better etc. It included the instructor pulling up websites to look at actual machines for sale, and digging through the provided material available to make better comparisons between machines.

It would be easy to do something similar with machine tools. If no machines are available, then it seems likely many people interested in joining a maker space may be looking for machines of their own / or wanting to get a better understanding of the machines that came into their possession one way or another.

Going over the differences between a lathe and a mill, a vertical mill vs a horizontal mill, the different kinds of lathes, the parts and tooling, what each type of machine is good for / gives up so that they can make a more educated search for machines.

To somebody brand new who just knows they want to learn to machine it is a deep pool to jump into, and a lot of useful machines for manufacturing are cheap, but of little utility to a hobbyist just getting started.

 

[C-Bag]

I would have loved to have someplace where I could have gotten truly unbiased help to figure out what would work for what I had in mind. I spent over a year trolling net forums and chasing threads. Even though my brother had worked as a machinist for decades he was basically worthless. Anything less than an industrial size mill or lathe was junk and horizontal mills and shapers were ancient junk. Even knowing I didn’t have that kind of room and they would have been overkill for my expected work envelope. I found this bias carried over to the professional forums. The one good thing was when they actually took the time to articulate why something was junk I could discern whether it was just knee jerk against the dreaded hobbyist or there was actually a shortcoming. That ended up narrowing what would work then it took almost another year to wrangle the machines.

 

[Aaron_W]

I would have loved to have someplace where I could have gotten truly unbiased help to figure out what would work for what I had in mind. I spent over a year trolling net forums and chasing threads. Even though my brother had worked as a machinist for decades he was basically worthless. Anything less than an industrial size mill or lathe was junk and horizontal mills and shapers were ancient junk. Even knowing I didn’t have that kind of room and they would have been overkill for my expected work envelope. I found this bias carried over to the professional forums. The one good thing was when they actually took the time to articulate why something was junk I could discern whether it was just knee jerk against the dreaded hobbyist or there was actually a shortcoming. That ended up narrowing what would work then it took almost another year to wrangle the machines.

That is the problem with so many resources for buying, most bring their own bias to what works for them and many don't have much experience with other machines. The pros know the full size professional machines and many hobbyists have the lathe that works for them, and if they do have experience with another it is often very negative which comes out as bashing the machine rather than recognizing it may have just been a poor fit for what they wanted to do.

This is seen nowhere as clearly as the love them or hate them 7x mini-lathes.

 

[C-Bag]

This is seen nowhere as clearly as the love them or hate them 7x mini-lathes.

Funny, here’s my bias. I would have said the 9x20 lathe and mill/ drill. I guess we are sensitive of criticism of our choice of machine. I see fully well the shortcomings of both of mine but I’ve also learned a lot about adjusting, modifying and maintaining them as my abilities and expectations have grown. Especially how to tell if it’s the machine or my sloppy or poor setup. Neither are anything to brag about but have more than filled the bill for what I had in mind when I started down this rabbit hole. I may be a rare case for a noob because I had a clear picture of my goals and the work envelope but was completely unaware of the class of machines I ended up with. If I’d have found H-M when I first started my search I often wonder what would have been different. For one I know I could have asked questions without fear of having my virtual head being taken off like I saw while trolling the pro forums…….

 

[Aaron_W]

Funny, here’s my bias. I would have said the 9x20 lathe and mill/ drill. I guess we are sensitive of criticism of our choice of machine. I see fully well the shortcomings of both of mine but I’ve also learned a lot about adjusting, modifying and maintaining them as my abilities and expectations have grown. Especially how to tell if it’s the machine or my sloppy or poor setup. Neither are anything to brag about but have more than filled the bill for what I had in mind when I started down this rabbit hole. I may be a rare case for a noob because I had a clear picture of my goals and the work envelope but was completely unaware of the class of machines I ended up with. If I’d have found H-M when I first started my search I often wonder what would have been different. For one I know I could have asked questions without fear of having my virtual head being taken off like I saw while trolling the pro forums…….

Round column mill is another great example, so much of a mixed message there. Certainly they have limitations, but most can be worked around and used they can offer a lot of machine for much less than a square column of even half the size. In a working shop I get the aversion, but in a hobby shop, they are quite attractive. The 9x20s I find are more overlooked rather than demonized as marginally useful even as a boat anchor as the 7x are.


I had a little different experience from you since I came to machining through models. Sherline completely dominates there. When I was looking probably 90% of the people who actually used a lathe for modeling had a Sherline. The other options would enter the conversation, but actual use vs "look at this too" was heavily skewed.

Now being very prone to analysis paralysis branching out I ran into the machinist sites which almost universally consider anything smaller than a South Bend 9 as useless. Running into Mikey and his defense of Sherline here, sealed the deal. Still took me almost 2 years from the start of the search to actually spending money and I was buying new, so none of that time was looking for the right deal, it was all second guessing.

What the welding class did that, I don't often see in "which lathe to buy" tutorials was to focus on specs, rather than brands and specific machines. Much more teach a man to fish. So often How to buy a lathe tutorials are little more than pick this machine its great.

In fairness what many are asking for is which machine to buy, rather than educate me so I can make a better choice.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

With all the great youtube videos available it seems like it would be hard to generate much enthusiasm for classroom work without making chips. If I were going to take a class "hands on" is what I would be interested in. The instructional youtube videos I enjoy most and get the most out of are the ones where the presenters show the mistakes they make. I don't know how you could present a similar learning experience without machines.

Sorry if I am quenching your enthusiasm, these are just my expectations.

I had to sit through 3 years of "Theory" during my apprenticeship before I ever got to touch a machine in the classroom.

By the time we got to the "Shop class" with actual machines I was for the most part way ahead of what that class was teaching having learned on the job. Not the way I wanted it to be, but not everyone has hands on time outside of class, so it is what it is.

Theory can be fun and it can also be mind numbing, it is what you make of it. If you stay engaged and pay close attention it will be better than if you check out half way through class and just drool on the desk.

 

[ggbutcher]

I had a little different experience from you since I came to machining through models. Sherline completely dominates there. When I was looking probably 90% of the people who actually used a lathe for modeling had a Sherline. The other options would enter the conversation, but actual use vs "look at this too" was heavily skewed.

I'm glad someone else said it. I'm just a noob with a Sherline...

Seems to me, a Sherline setup would be a good choice for makerspace-hosted education. You can literally take it out of a closet, demonstrate with it, and put it back in the closet in an evening. Brass and aluminum make nice demo materials; could even do a few steel thing to demonstrate what it takes to do that on a small machine. A neat setup would be that with one of those cameras displaying on a screen.

Anyway, FWIW...