Motor swap

Are you saying you run high speed tools, slowly?
Or that you run HSS tooling, slowly?
Or that you run both high speed tools and low speed ones also?
I knew that might be confusing. I almost exclusively use high speed steel endmills at an rpm of less than 600. I have a carbide facemill, but it's sort of a "in case of emergency" item.
I'm going to have to read everything you all have written a few times. It seems I may have been correct to distrust myself. Lol
FWIW, I thought I had a motor which fits my earlier description sitting on the floor next to the mill. Turns out it's only 1/2hp, which evidently will not be suitable. Perhaps it can go on the little Atlas lathe instead. Although I've never thought it needed it.
 
It has taken me a long time to unlearn what I thought I knew about motors and running machine tools.
+1
I unlearn more often than I learn, seems like.
Using a modern sensorless vector VFD you can flatten the torque curve to produce nearly 100% rated torque from about 10 RPM up to the rated speed of the motor (constant torque mode), then above the rated speed the torque starts falling off (constant HP mode) until you reach the maximum rated RPM of the motor, at which point the motor is capable of producing very little torque.
This is something I recently unlearned (that section of quoted text could very well have been penned by my own hand just a couple of years ago). Maybe you can share some perspective/experience that will lead me to un-unlearn it? See, I believed in this "constant HP" mode as if it were something that happens automatically in the "field weakening" zone (>60Hz or nameplate frequency) because that's how all the graphs show it. EX:
VFD-Volts-Hertz-Curves_evm4aw.jpg

But when I went out of my way to try and operate a VFD in this manner, what I found was something quite different. The application was a compressor; I didn't like how a "5HP" compressor doesn't live up to its name until right before it shuts off. So I put a VFD on it, and the idea was to set a 120Hz max frequency and let it run double speed until it starts to load up (until 5HP is reached, well below the pressure cutoff) and gradually slow down as pressure builds, following the above line labeled "Tmax" from right to left. That didn't happen. What happened was, it tried to deliver nameplate amps @ nameplate volts, at 120Hz, which overloaded the VFD. I found that this "constant power" mode is not something that just happens naturally. I went on to find that it's not even a behavior you can program the drive to emulate (via normal parameters). I did eventually get it to work in my Yaskawa V1000 by utilizing it's integral PLC to monitor output watts and incrementally lower the speed reference as output power exceeds the drive's rating. It worked but it wasn't natural. Later I needed that Yaskawa for something else, so I subbed it for an AD GS2 VFD, and with that one I couldn't find a way to make it work at all with the VFD alone. I ended up having to bring an external PLC into the mix, to poll the VFD for its output current, voltage, and frequency, do the math, and decrease the speed reference to the drive as calculated output power was exceeded.

Maybe I repeatedly overlooked something simple? Have you ever observed this "constant power" mode in real life? If you have, I'd like to know what drive you were using and if it took any special parameter changes, or if it just happened naturally.

The down side of operating a standard 3 phase motor at near maximum torque and below the rated RPM is the potential of overheating.
Agreed, and another good reason to choose your forever-ratio near the low end, so that you always have enough RPM to stay cool.
 
@JimDawson hang on, before you reply to that, I think I might have had a eureka moment. Amazing what a 2yr break can do for pulling your head out of your rear. Re-reading my own words, it seems pretty obvious to me now, that I must have had my VFDs in speed mode instead of torque mode. Frequency shouldn't have any bearing on output power. It should be able to run nameplate volts @ nameplate amps @ 120hz all day long. The problem must have been that it was trying its damndest to maintain 120hz, which was sending amps well over nameplate and faulting the drive. Although that seems too simple of a mistake and I trust myself from 2 years ago to have not made that mistake, it seems a very logical explanation to myself today. I need to go home and tinker some more with my compressor.
 
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To be honest, I'd probably be fine with that anemic 3 phase Rockwell motor you took off.
 
@JimDawson hang on, before you reply to that, I think I might have had a eureka moment. Amazing what a 2yr break can do for pulling your head out of your rear. Re-reading my own words, it seems pretty obvious to me now, that I must have had my VFDs in speed mode instead of torque mode. Frequency shouldn't have any bearing on output power. It should be able to run nameplate volts @ nameplate amps @ 120hz all day long. The problem must have been that it was trying its damndest to maintain 120hz, which was sending amps well over nameplate and faulting the drive. Although that seems too simple of a mistake and I trust myself from 2 years ago to have not made that mistake, it seems a very logical explanation to myself today. I need to go home and tinker some more with my compressor.

There is no ''Torque Mode'' parameter in VFDs that I'm aware of. I think the problem you were seeing with your compressor is due to the firmware in the VFD. It is not programmed to foldback and sacrifice speed to maintain constant power supplied to the motor. Quite the contrary, it is programmed to keep increasing the output power and maintain constant speed, which it will do until it faults out due to over current. You implemented the only way I know of to maintain constant power output, and that is to use an external controller. I was going to do the same thing with my compressor and realized I would need a computer in the mix to make it all work. I have never implemented that.
 
sensorless vector mode "can" improve low speed torque. Maybe that is the torque mode he is talking about.

As far as a 3/4 hp motor and turning it down to low speeds, I would step up a size or two of motor and still plan on two speeds on the belt reduction.

My little atlas mfc has a 3/4 horse motor(a baldor TENV inverter rated)/ac lenze vfd and alway is in at least a two to one reduction. My delta drill press as well is almost alway in the 3:1 reduction with the same motor/kbc vfd. I was using a hole saw on some 1/4" wall steel square tube on the delta the other night (3-1/4") and stalled it a few time even at that reduction. The slow speed however kept the cutter like new were it would be over heating if ran at the original motors/belt low speed. Its wonderfull for tapping as well as the instant reverse makes for quick efficient work.
 
I don't know what I'm doing wrong, because in my not so long life, I've stopped a lathe chuck spinning, and I've stopped a drill bit spinning....but I've never seen even a 1/3 hp motor stop spinning. I'm way too easy on my equipment I guess. Lol
 
I don't know what I'm doing wrong, because in my not so long life, I've stopped a lathe chuck spinning, and I've stopped a drill bit spinning....but I've never seen even a 1/3 hp motor stop spinning. I'm way too easy on my equipment I guess. Lol
were you driving the motor itself at 100 rpms with a vfd?
 
Here are some potential candidate motors on ebay, which would need shafts turned down:

There might be other approaches using a more conventional length shaft as a starter, which would give you more choices...

Press the shaft out of the rotor and turn a new shaft with the desired length. This takes some force, and might not work out well. See:

If the shaft was a somewhat larger diameter (say 7/8 or better) you could bore the end out and shrink and/or press in a piece of 1/2" shaft with the desired length. You might need to shave down the front bearing journal a bit in order to get the bearing on.

Many motors put the bearing numbers on the data plate, which you can use figure out the bearing journal diameters and potential for shaft boring-out.
 
were you driving the motor itself at 100 rpms with a vfd?
Aha! That's a very good point. And the answer is no. I've never intentionally run any 60 hz motor below 40 hz. Someone somewhere with some authority had told me it was bad practice.
Now we're talking about 0-200 hz motors with 6k rpm. I'm downright flummoxed by the proposition. But thank you for all this information everyone. It'll take me some time to calm my nerves enough to let it soak in. Lol
That Sterling motor would sure put some bling on the old girl.
 
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