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New California Law Bans Products Containing Brass

Discussion in 'GENERAL DISCUSSIONS' started by PCT, Dec 28, 2016.

  1. PCT

    PCT United States Iron Registered Member

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    I recently (12-26-16) ordered a rotary table from Grizzly Industrial. I was informed by Grizzly that my order was canceled due to a new California law which bans shipment of anything to California which contains brass. I phoned for clarification, the Grizzly rep said that they can no longer ship anything to CA that has any brass content due to the new law. Apparently, it is the lead in brass that is the problem.

    Has anyone else had this problem? Any way to get around it? Has the "Nanny State" run amok?
     
  2. JimDawson

    JimDawson Global Moderator Staff Member Director

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    That law was passed relating to plumbing fixtures. I didn't realize it was expanded to industrial products, if that's the case, maybe the legislature needs to take a look at what they passed. o_O That's just crazy. :confused 3:
     
  3. tweinke

    tweinke United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Thinking that was not real well thought out.
     
  4. chips&more

    chips&more United States Active User Active Member

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    That’s a new one on me?????? I hope this is all some kind of miss understanding. There are literally millions of stand-alone products and products with brass components in them…MILLIONS.
     
  5. JimDawson

    JimDawson Global Moderator Staff Member Director

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    With a bit more research, I can't find any reference relating to anything except plumbing and some jewelry. I suggest this is something completely new or Grizzly is mistaken.

    EDIT: I found this. It could be a labeling issue

    California Notice on Brass

    Proposition 65, the Safe Drinking Water and Toxic Enforcement Act of 1986, was initiated in California. Under this act, a list of chemicals that are known to the state of California to cause cancer, birth defects or other reproductive harm is published annually. This list contains more than 700 chemicals that can be found in consumer and industrial products or services, in addition to chemicals that are released into the environment.

    As part of this California law, businesses are required to provide warnings for products that may contain any listed chemical. As such, the following warning will be included on specific product web pages and included with all orders shipped to the state of California:

    WARNING: These products may contain chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer, birth defects or other reproductive harm.

    Products most likely to require Proposition 65 warnings include brass items, finishing products, items made of PVC. The state of California's advice regarding safe handling of most of these products is to wash your hands after handling.

    For more information about Proposition 65, please refer to the following website: http://www.oehha.ca.gov/prop65.html
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2016
  6. dpb

    dpb United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    If there was a new law banning brass coming into CA, shooters would have heard about it. Lots of gun laws lately, but I haven't heard anything like this.
     
  7. pdentrem

    pdentrem Active User Active Member

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    Looks to me that people in California will no longer have any running water in their homes. Copper pipe, faucets and a multitude of plumbing fittings.
    Pierre
     
  8. David S

    David S Canada Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I am not aware of a law Banning brass, but rather the law that states that certain products containing lead have to have the warning stated above. We had to include the warning when we shipped our power tools to California since the PVC power supply cords contained lead.

    David
     
  9. Tony Wells

    Tony Wells United States Vice President Staff Member Administrator

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    Just thinking guys.....stay within the bound of the "no politics" policy. Everything fine so far, so let's keep it that way please. It's a fair subject of discussion.

    I doubt seriously that the legislature has any idea how many products contain lead or brass, so I wonder about the origins of these new regulations.
     
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  10. pdentrem

    pdentrem Active User Active Member

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    I sent an email to the address on the linked page that Jim Dawson posted asking for clarification.
    Pierre
     
  11. 12bolts

    12bolts Global Moderator Staff Member Active Member

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    I would think grizzly have misunderstood something. Lead free Brass is mandated in Australia now for plumbing, and also, I believe, in California, as well as probably many other states/territories/countries. But as far as I know there is no restriction on the use of leaded brass in other applications.

    Cheers Phil
     
  12. pdentrem

    pdentrem Active User Active Member

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    My thoughts as well.
    Pierre
     
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  13. PCT

    PCT United States Iron Registered Member

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    Thanks for the replies. I checked the CA government link sent by Jim Dawson, thanks Jim. I also called, left a message, and emailed the Prop 65 office asking for clarification. I hope that the folks at Grizzly are just misapplying the law and will change their policy. I was looking forward to getting that rotary table!
    I will let you know what I find out from Sacramento.
     
  14. mksj

    mksj Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    As far as I can tell, the mandate as Jim outlined applies to plumbing, or items used in food/drinking consumption. Most brass plumping (newer fittings) are lead free, there is usually a sicker on them specifically stating so. The banning of all brass products would be ludicrous , but then California leads the field in that endeavor (I left the bay area because of cost, taxation and insane regulations).
     
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  15. higgite

    higgite General Manger - Proofreading Dept. Active Member

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    Just spitballing here, but it sounds to me like maybe Grizzly has chosen to not put up with the hassle of dealing with the CA warning label on their products, hence they can't ship them to CA.

    In a similar vein, I mail ordered a fly tying vise a number of years ago which came with a warning label that said, in so many words, don't eat it. I had need to call the manufacturer about something else and asked them about the label while we were talking. He said it was required by CA law and they (the mfr.) didn't have any idea when a vise was boxed at the factory where it might wind up in a retail shop, so they just labeled all of them.

    Tom
     
  16. tq60

    tq60 United States Active Member Active Member

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    Awhile back there was a huge bin fill of brass fittings at the scrap yard so got some for air supply.

    At a local mom and pop hardware store that is older than dirt they still have all of theirs and posted sign states "not for potable water"

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk
     
  17. firestopper

    firestopper H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I wonder if CA true intentions are to ban ammunition, the rest is collateral damage so to speak. What a joke!:gangster:
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2016
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  18. Ulma Doctor

    Ulma Doctor Infinitely Curious H-M Supporter-Premium

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    they will soon be banning air and water
     
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  19. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I still believe that part of Calif. is going to break off (including all of the stupid people that adopt these laws, too) and fall in the ocean as we used to hear in our younger years! Mike, I hope you on the piece of land that stays put.
     
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  20. jpfabricator

    jpfabricator United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    You can ship the rotary table to me, in Texas. I don't think we've banned brass.


    Sent from somwhere in east Texas by Jake!
     
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  21. JimDawson

    JimDawson Global Moderator Staff Member Director

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    You may not be too far off:

    From Kaleo Arms https://www.kaleoarms.com/pages/faqs

    FAQs
    Brass Questions:
    Where do you ship? Why am I getting an error shipping to a California address?


    California: In light of the passing of CA Proposition 63, we will continue to accept and ship orders with California billing and shipping addresses through Christmas 2017. This will allow for successful delivery before the seller portion of Prop 63 takes effect January 1, 2018.
     
  22. Ulma Doctor

    Ulma Doctor Infinitely Curious H-M Supporter-Premium

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    :cautious: :mad:
     
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  23. JPMacG

    JPMacG Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I don't know about CA, but the European RoHS regulation has an exception for brass. There is also an exception for high-temperature leaded solder. I believe they were forced to make these exceptions because there was no suitable lead-free substitute for certain applications.
     
  24. Rick Berk

    Rick Berk United States Active User Active Member

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    I have waited my whole life for California to slide in the ocean, you know California is just like a box of cereal - throw away the fruits and the nuts but you still have the Flakes.
     
  25. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Ok guys, I know I started this with my comment, but let's not get too carried away. Lets keep the comments nice!

    There are several forum members here that live in Calif. and are good people, so it can't be too bad there. Of course I would love for them to move to Texas...
     
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  26. chips&more

    chips&more United States Active User Active Member

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    Yes, California will break away. But then the rest of the US will sink and California will be the only state left above water! With all the machine toys to ourselves on a nice retirement island.
     
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  27. Reeltor

    Reeltor United States Active User Active Member

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    I recently replaced the 35 year old faucets in my master bathroom and bought high end (at least high end for me) fittings from the same manufacturer. I was very disappointed when I found that the fittings were mostly plastic, without any brass. Response from the manufacturer was something to the effect; because of pending legislation in Calif. we no longer produce brass fixtures.
    I agree that Grizzly must be misinterpreting the new law. I hope with some clarification from the state, they will reconsider and ship to you.
     
  28. RJSakowski

    RJSakowski H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    CA Prop 63 deals with control of firearms and ammunition . As I waded through the morass of text, I saw no specific reference to brass cases under the definition of ammunition. It may be that the term"cartridge" is being interpreted as including empty cartridge casings.

    CA Prop 65 is actually quite old, going back to 1986. I saw no reference to brass on the latest list of almost 1000 prohibited chemicals as defined by Prop 65.

    I suspect that Grizzly's legal beagles are just being super conservative
     
  29. chips&more

    chips&more United States Active User Active Member

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    So if brass can longer be had. Maybe all the brass stock I have will be worth as much as gold! I’ll be rich:chunky:!
     
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  30. 12bolts

    12bolts Global Moderator Staff Member Active Member

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    Ship it to a friend in Arizona.

    Cheers Phil
     

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