Projects? Tool improvements or real projects?

[matthewsx]

From my understanding there are Operators, Machinists, and Tool & Die Makers among other positions in a commercial shop. Apparently we have a bunch of Tool & Die Makers on here....

But, I see plenty of projects posted here including one member who seems to make a new custom engine about every other week....

One of the really cool things about this forum is that although it's very well moderated nobody seems to get bent out of shape when a thread goes "off-topic". In fact, that's where we get some of our best discussions.

As a hobby forum lots of us don't buy new equipment, thus the need for lots of repairs and improvements to the machines we have and discussions of how to make them do things beyond the original designers intentions.

That said, I got tools to make tools for makin tools to fix my tools

John

 

[mmcmdl]

Been a Toolmaker for 35yrs

Same here but for 48 yrs . Most time in prototype working with engineers. Engineers are great but don't understand the concept of how to build things efficiently . They didn't have the machining expertise back in the days . We made things our way in the shop and they made revisions according to our input . Saved the company mucho dinero this way . We were treated like gold in our little top secret shop until our old German leader retired . We were then thrown out into production after the other bosses tore the walls down . There was a lot of jelously from these bosses in production as we didn't use their services and they could not enter our area . Think of it as a skunkworks area .

 

[mmcmdl]

From my understanding there are Operators, Machinists, and Tool & Die Makers among other positions in a commercial shop.

The machinist and tool and die apprenticeships were one in the same . Once finishing the 4 year machinist gig , the tool and die papers was another complete year of training and schooling . So they do overlap .

 

[projectnut]

Not that it's a bad thing but seems like all the projects I see are things to improve the use of our machines. Are people actually making innovational inventions requiring lathes and mills?

I must admit I don't quite understand the mentality either. Over the years I have purchased a couple dozen pieces of used American Iron. Some of them did need minor repairs, but by in large the machines performed as they should right out of the box. The machines that didn't need repairs were bought at around 15-20% of what they would have cost new. Those that did need repairs were purchased at 10% or less than the price of new. The finished machines were around 15% of the cost of new.

The nice thing about industrial iron is that you know what to expect, and what it will take to bring them back to a production ready state. The best part is that new and used parts are available for all but the most ancient machines. I can't say the same for hobby grade offshore machines. On the rare occasions I did purchase a couple HF tools I had them fail while still under warranty. Even then it took in excess of 6 months to get replacement parts.

I much prefer to use the machines as intended rather than have to spend time and effort modifying them. The last thing I want to do when I go to the shop is spending half or more of my time getting a machine to operate correctly rather than making a quick part or repair and be on my way.

I'm sure the market for high quality used machinery varies greatly across the country. I happen to live in the heart of the rust belt. High end machinery in good condition is cheap and plentiful around here. Most of it becomes available because shops are upgrading to newer, faster machines rather than running the older ones into the ground. I have purchased used industrial grade saws, grinders, mills, lathes and other machines from schools, machine shops, and used equipment dealers.

My first choice will always be industrial grade used iron. It's usually as simple as a quick wash job, a little lubrication, and the push of a button to get it up and running.

 

[Ultradog MN]

"I don't know how people that can't make stuff get by"

They just watch a lot of television.
Some like to watch others use tools to make things.

 

[LX Kid]

My interest is mostly taking old iron and restoring them. I've done five lathes and two drill presses. Never made a dime on any of them but sure do enjoy the challenge. My hobby is like throwing money in a burn barrel and watching it go up in smoke! LoL
My latest restoration from about a week ago. Crafty 12x42 lathe. Before and after. (Ooops can't find a pic of before right now.)

 

[Aaron_W]

Interesting question. Thinking about it as a person who came to machining in order to build scale train models, it just seems more appropriate to post about tool work here and model work on the other forums where I hang out, as the folks more interested in each are in those respective places.

Thinking about it more, turns out I haven't done any machined model parts yet, still making the tools...

I'm in very much the same place. I came to hobby machining through model building. Mostly emergency vehicles rather than trains but similar experience.
Fixing up machines, and making tools to help with my model building or machining takes up a lot of the time I would have spent building models.

My woodworking follows the same path, with many of my projects being shop or model building support, storage or machine rehab / upgrade related.

It is amazing that I find any time to build a model.

I also follow similar posting habits, model stuff at model sites, wood stuff at wood sites. A lot of the doo-dads I make for other hobbies or home based projects are simple and I often don't feel like they rate a post. That means I tend to focus on machine repair or machine tool posts here. I guess I could be better about posting some of my stuff that gets done with my machines.

Admittedly a lot of what they get used for is machine repair and tools

that's so funny, but true. Most of us are machinist wanna be's. So we make many mistakes, even as we get better. But then again the pros do occasionally too.

I think the big difference for a lot of us vs a real machinist is the time and number of attempts to get there. A pro just makes the part, I watch some you tube, read a book, goof up, try again, goof up something else and then if I'm lucky 3rd time is passable.

I lean into the term Model Engineering as even Hobby Machinist seems too high falooten for my skill set.

 

[GeneT45]

that's so funny, but true. Most of us are machinist wanna be's. So we make many mistakes, even as we get better. But then again the pros do occasionally too.

I think the thing that really sets "us" apart from the hired guy is that we care a great deal about what we're doing. I don't need to flip some gun work in four hours to come out ahead - I can spend dozens of hours getting it right and still have what I wanted sooner than hiring it done. I can spend hours planning, then check, re-check, triple-check everything before making a single chip. I've made a few (okay, okay, more than a few...) mistakes over the years, but most of my jobs come out well and most of my mistakes are recoverable. Best of all, I know what was done, so there's nothing hiding around the corner to bite me in the ass.

A fantastic machinist once told me "The difference between an amateur and a master is that a master knows how to cover up his mistakes...". That's not the whole truth, but there's a whole lotta truth in it!

GsT

 

[DavidR8]

The running joke in my house is that my shop is a self-perpetuating environment, only existing to make things for itself

 

[SouthernChap]

'Some of us on here have a lot of improvements to make to our machine tools!

I've got my Chinese 7x in bits again (3rd time) to add some more rigidity improvements.

My bandsaw is awaiting the removal of the grip with the deadman's trigger that you have to hold down, and the replacement of the trigger with a switch. I also have a vertical table for it that clamps in the vice. The welder who 'made' it for me screwed up by warping the table surface plate when he welded the supports on so I have to sort that out.

My drill press needs the head boring out a little so it's actually straight and the right size for the quill and a bushing the right size putting in. I need to turn some new handles for the feed and drill and tap some new holes as the existing handles are a bit wobbly. I've also got to install a little digital readout scale.

As a beginner, I'm unlikely to initially do any projects that will set the world alight but it's nice to have somewhere, that when I'm ready, I can talk about what I've done.

Also tools are cool.