Rollie's Dads Method Problem

HBilly1022

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Today I discovered my King 10 x 22 lathe (same as Grizzly G0602) is cutting an unintentional taper. I realized I haven't checked the alignment since mounting on the new bench, so using the above method I tried to fix the issue. During the first part (Horizontal alignment) I found the alignment to be out and after some adjusting I got the average to match exactly. However in my attempts to get the Vertical alignment adjusted nothing would change. I kept getting the same averages no matter what I did. I started by adding paper shims to the tailstock and got up to 4 thicknesses without any measurable change in the readings. So I took those out and went to the headstock and started adding paper shims. I got as far as adding 8 thicknesses to each side of the headstock and still no changes.

Is there something about this lathe that prevents me from making this adjustment or am I doing something wrong? Note there is only one bolt holding the headstock down and the same on the tailstock. The bolts are dead center between the lathe bed rails.
 
Today I discovered my King 10 x 22 lathe (same as Grizzly G0602) is cutting an unintentional taper. I realized I haven't checked the alignment since mounting on the new bench, so using the above method I tried to fix the issue. During the first part (Horizontal alignment) I found the alignment to be out and after some adjusting I got the average to match exactly. However in my attempts to get the Vertical alignment adjusted nothing would change. I kept getting the same averages no matter what I did. I started by adding paper shims to the tailstock and got up to 4 thicknesses without any measurable change in the readings. So I took those out and went to the headstock and started adding paper shims. I got as far as adding 8 thicknesses to each side of the headstock and still no changes.

Is there something about this lathe that prevents me from making this adjustment or am I doing something wrong? Note there is only one bolt holding the headstock down and the same on the tailstock. The bolts are dead center between the lathe bed rails.

I have a Grizzly G0602 which I understand is essentially the same as your lathe.

From the title of your thread, I assume you are checking alignment using the RDM. A few questions for you. It sounds like you checked and corrected for horizontal misalignment. For the vertical alignment check are you measuring runout in the vertical plane through the spindle? You mention the tailstock. The tailstock only comes into play when you are running between centers and checking the alignment of the tailstock to the headstock axis.

In aligning the lathe, I would check first for lathe level. Next, I would check for cross feed alignment by mounting the faceplate and sweeping the face with a dial or test indicator. Make a mark on the faceplate where the measurement will be made and make a measurement with the cross feed retracted. extend the crossfeed and rotate the faceplate so the measurement will be made at the same point. This ensures that any runout in the faceplate is compensated for. You can also skim cut the face plate to true it. My lathe has the ability to pivot the headstock slightly to angle the spindle axis to the front or rear relative to the ways. The headstock should be rotated to get the same reading. This is done first because the G602 and your King lathe have no other way to correct for cross feed misalignment except for re-machining the cross feed ways

I would them check for min/max in the horizontal and vertical plane. This is basically the alignment of the headstock, specifically the spindle axis, to the lathe bed.

This would be done with the horizontal RDM check. However, you don't want to disturb the previously aligned headstock. I would shim the base of the lathe at the tailstock to correct. Placing shims under the base to correct for taper amounts to twisting the bed and should not be used for major corrections. Although your lathe has only a single mounting bolt at the tailstock you can still shim under the four corners of the base. Remember that you are trying to induce a twist so add the shim pack equally to the left and right of the base at either the front or back.

To tilt the spindle axis up or down relative to the ways, I would check this in the vertical plane and I would shim the headstock. Vertical alignment of the spindle axis to the ways is not as critical as the horizontal alignment. It basically raises or drops the tooling slightly as you traverse the ways. The effect is small for most turning as the factor is the cosine of the angle created by the drop or rise of the tool. Unless it was a significant amount, I wouldn't bother with correcting.

Once the headstock was aligned horizontally and vertically to the ways, I would look at the tailstock. To check I would mount the test bar between centers and check the min/max readings near the headstock and the tailstock in both the horizontal and vertical planes. Adjustments would be made by shifting the tailstock to the front or rear for the horizontal adjustment and shimming the tailstock for the vertical adjustment. Note that if you add shims to the tailstock, it will have to be done equally on four corners. The tailstock axis could also be angled relative to the headstock axis. You can check this by making the measurements first with the tailstock retracted and then with it extended. You should get the same readings for both.

I hope this helps you.
 
Did you check to see if the bench is level and flat? If the bench has a twist in it, then the lathe will have a twist, especially if the lathe is bolted down. A shim on one of the legs of the bench would be the easiest fix. Then I would follow RJ's excellent instructions.
 
I have a Grizzly G0602 which I understand is essentially the same as your lathe.

From the title of your thread, I assume you are checking alignment using the RDM. A few questions for you. It sounds like you checked and corrected for horizontal misalignment. For the vertical alignment check are you measuring runout in the vertical plane through the spindle? You mention the tailstock. The tailstock only comes into play when you are running between centers and checking the alignment of the tailstock to the headstock axis.

In aligning the lathe, I would check first for lathe level. Next, I would check for cross feed alignment by mounting the faceplate and sweeping the face with a dial or test indicator. Make a mark on the faceplate where the measurement will be made and make a measurement with the cross feed retracted. extend the crossfeed and rotate the faceplate so the measurement will be made at the same point. This ensures that any runout in the faceplate is compensated for. You can also skim cut the face plate to true it. My lathe has the ability to pivot the headstock slightly to angle the spindle axis to the front or rear relative to the ways. The headstock should be rotated to get the same reading. This is done first because the G602 and your King lathe have no other way to correct for cross feed misalignment except for re-machining the cross feed ways

I would them check for min/max in the horizontal and vertical plane. This is basically the alignment of the headstock, specifically the spindle axis, to the lathe bed.

This would be done with the horizontal RDM check. However, you don't want to disturb the previously aligned headstock. I would shim the base of the lathe at the tailstock to correct. Placing shims under the base to correct for taper amounts to twisting the bed and should not be used for major corrections. Although your lathe has only a single mounting bolt at the tailstock you can still shim under the four corners of the base. Remember that you are trying to induce a twist so add the shim pack equally to the left and right of the base at either the front or back.

To tilt the spindle axis up or down relative to the ways, I would check this in the vertical plane and I would shim the headstock. Vertical alignment of the spindle axis to the ways is not as critical as the horizontal alignment. It basically raises or drops the tooling slightly as you traverse the ways. The effect is small for most turning as the factor is the cosine of the angle created by the drop or rise of the tool. Unless it was a significant amount, I wouldn't bother with correcting.

Once the headstock was aligned horizontally and vertically to the ways, I would look at the tailstock. To check I would mount the test bar between centers and check the min/max readings near the headstock and the tailstock in both the horizontal and vertical planes. Adjustments would be made by shifting the tailstock to the front or rear for the horizontal adjustment and shimming the tailstock for the vertical adjustment. Note that if you add shims to the tailstock, it will have to be done equally on four corners. The tailstock axis could also be angled relative to the headstock axis. You can check this by making the measurements first with the tailstock retracted and then with it extended. You should get the same readings for both.

I hope this helps you.

Thank you very much RJ. That is an excellent write up and tomorrow I will follow your advise. Starting with checking the cross slide. I have never done that and was not aware of this procedure. But it makes perfect sense to start there.

I was using RDM to set up both the horiz and vert alignment per those instructions. So yes I was checking the vert spindle run out. I mention the tails stock but in fact it is the TS end of the lathe bed that I was shimming after doing the horiz adjustments. According to the RDM instructions, it says to adjust vert alignment by shimming the TS end of the bed and if that doesn't correct it, then add shims to both sides of the bed at the headstock end. I can see from your write that the vert adjustment is not essential and will ignore that during my next trial.

Not sure what you mean by checking the lathe level. Does it really matter if the lathe is level (ie 90* to plumb) or are you referring to something else?

Did you check to see if the bench is level and flat? If the bench has a twist in it, then the lathe will have a twist, especially if the lathe is bolted down. A shim on one of the legs of the bench would be the easiest fix. Then I would follow RJ's excellent instructions.

I have adjustable feet on each corner of my lathe bench and tried adjusting those first but it didn't seem to work so I started adjusting by shimming the lathe bed itself between the lathe base and the bench top.
 
Leveling is usually the first step performed in lathe alignment. Bench lathes are manufactured to rest on flat surfaces and leveling is a convenient way to accurately check for any twisting.
 
Leveling is usually the first step performed in lathe alignment. Bench lathes are manufactured to rest on flat surfaces and leveling is a convenient way to accurately check for any twisting.

Got it!! Bed does not have to be level, just checking to see both sides are in the same plane, ie not twisted and using a level is convenient.

I read your post a couple of times last night and again this morning. Funny that after a coffee and re reading it, I can clearly see the sequence you outlined and now understand it. Thanks again. Looks like I have my work cut out for the next day or so.

Edit:
I checked the cross slide and find there is a 0.007" difference from side to side, when rotating the faceplate 180* to measure at the same spot. Is this worth rotating the headstock? I see there are 4 bolts holding it place and I suspect there is some play in those that would allow the head to be rotated.

I have a question about this. Do I really want to rotate the head so it is perpendicular to the cross slide? Lets say the cross slide was out a lot, say 10*. Then if I rotated the head to be perpendicular to the cross slide it would be 10* out of alignment with the lathe ways. Am I overthinking this?
 
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The only point I'm unsure of is that the headstock can be rotated. I will check the parts diagram to see how this would be done, if needed.
On the G602 there are four M10x1.25 mounting studs and nuts which hold the headstock on. The front panel has to be removed to access the two front nuts. The two back nuts are exposed but it was a tight fit with the motor in place. There are two M6 set screws bias the studs and which allow for a controlled rotation. It would probably be easiest to remove the back splash and possibly the motor when making the adjustment.

A 3mm hex drive with an 8" extension will make the adjustment easier. I made one by cutting off the short side on a 3mm Allen wrench and a utilizing cheap socket driver by cutting off the socket and drilling a slightly undersized hole in the shank. I then put some Super Glue in the hole and pressed the Allen wrench into the hole.
 
Thanks RJ. I already pulled the front cover partially off and saw the nuts but wasn't aware of the set screws. That will make it much easier to adjust things.

Looks like I should have spent more time setting the lathe up in the beginning instead of being in such a hurry to use it. Now I will have to start over and get it right. I think part of the issue is that I have no experience with machining and was not aware of all the intricacies involved with setting up a lathe and the effect that would take place if things were not right. Now that I have a little experience with the lathe I am starting to understand the issues, as I see them first hand. It will be nice if I can get it set up properly. Then I can concentrate on learning to machine.

Edit: got the head rotated ...... that was easy using the set screws you noted. Now on to the next step.
 
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making chips is a secondary thing to machining. Getting familiar with a machine and how to set it up for the accuracy one desires is #1.
Good luck with your endeavours.
 
So after rotating the headstock to make the spindle perpendicular to the cross slide I can't get the horizontal alignment set. I've put as many as 12 pieces of paper under one leg of the headstock with very little change in the averages so I removed them and did the same thing to the other leg of the headstock. Still no joy. I think that rotating the head has made this impossible. It appears to me that I can either have the headstock spindle true to the ways or perpendicular to the cross slide but not both.

I'm going into the City tomorrow to get a machinist level and will start over once I get it home. That way I can ensure the ways are not twisted before I start changing any more settings.
 
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