Wilton C3 Vise

[682bear]

Last week I picked up a large-ish Wilton bullet vise...





This vise is an early (1979) C3 model, judging from the measurements... but all of the specs that I have found say the C3 should weigh in at about 200 pounds. According to my old set of bathroom scales, it actually weighs about 158...

I know my scales probably aren't terribly accurate, but if they are reading 40 pounds lighter than actual weight, it's definately time for me to start dieting...

So I started overthinking things, as I tend to do occasionally, and started wondering if there were some chunks broke out of the vise and replaced with filler under that paint. I doubted it... 40 pounds of missing iron should be obvious.

This afternoon, I disassembled the vise and used a flashlight to inspect the insides of the casting cavities. I also checked the outside with a magnet... I found no evidence of damage, repairs, or filler at all.

I can't explain the weight discrepancy... but I'm not too worried about it now that I know the castings are sound.

While I had it apart, I repaired a couple of small issues. The front plate that holds the screw in the dynamic jaw has three screws that hold it to the jaw... the top screw was missing and there were no threads visible in the hole. I assumed the hole was stripped, but after running a #21 drill bit and a #10-32 tap through it, I determined the threads were just full of paint... they cleaned up nicely.



I put it back together with a new screw in the upper hole... it doesn't match the other two, but it will work until I can get one that does...



While I was working on it, I got a notification on my phone that USPS had delivered a package... I had ordered a new set of jaw inserts... they were in the mailbox.

The previous owner had removed the beat-up original inserts and flipped them upside down to try and make it look better... I removed them... they were in bad shape...



The new inserts are some that I bought off ebay... I don't know if they are original Wilton jaws or if the seller is making them.. they are pretty nice, anyway...



After installing them...





-Bear

 

[GeneT45]

I'd speculate that 200# might have been the "shipping weight", which would include crate / pallet / etc and usually allow generous room for variation.

Looks like a nice vise any way you slice it, and you can be thankful that it's 40# "underweight" every time you move it...

GsT

 

[G-ManBart]

I'm glad you replaced the jaws because I was going to suggest that. Wilton jaws from that era actually weren't meant to be flipped. They had a slight relief on the bottom where they met the jaw support but not on the top. When they get worn and beat up on the top and people flip them, it often leaves a gap between the bottom of the jaw and the jaw support so that any load is transferred into the bolts holding the jaws. That's a recipe for a broken casting or stripped bolt.

A buddy of mine named Nick (Autopts on eBay) sells the most Wilton parts of anybody I know, and definitely the most on eBay. If that's who you got them from, he gets some from Wilton and has two shops that make jaws for him as well...all are totally fine.

As far as the weight goes, I've had every version of C3 Wilton has made and weighed them. My first C3 was the exact style of yours and I definitely weighed that one and got 155lbs. I'd say your scale is close (I'm sure there's slight variation in the weight as well with that size casting). The latest examples weigh 175-180lbs as I recall and if you put the two side-by-side you can see that the newer version has a larger back half of the body that's a bit longer so it it should weigh more. The 200lb figure is probably a shipping weight for the current version. I've got a brand new C3 still on the shipping plywood, but don't feel like wrestling that thing on the scale!

Since this is a machinery forum I'll point out something that machinists all likely hate! If you look at the picture you show with the screw holes for the horseshoe collar retaining screws, there's a plug at 1-2 O'clock. That's a blind bore tapered pin that secures the dynamic jaw casting to the round slide. The casting threads onto the slide and when it's threaded all the way on, they drift the pin in to lock it in place. Those pins can loosen up and the hole can get oblong if they aren't tightened up quickly. Blind bores...ugh! I once had a 500S with that pin broken that was a real pain to get out. Luckily the bore wasn't damaged so a new pin and things were right with the world.

 

[682bear]

A buddy of mine named Nick (Autopts on eBay) sells the most Wilton parts of anybody I know, and definitely the most on eBay. If that's who you got them from, he gets some from Wilton and has two shops that make jaws for him as well...all are totally fine.

I did buy the jaws from Autopts... they are very well done. I did have to flip both jaws to see which way they seated better on the support ledge.

I was wondering what that pin in the nose of the jaw was for... hopefully, I won't ever have to remove it for anything. If I do, I'm guessing drilling and tapping it for a puller would be the way to go, unless it is too hard?

-Bear

 

[G-ManBart]

I did buy the jaws from Autopts... they are very well done. I did have to flip both jaws to see which way they seated better on the support ledge.

I was wondering what that pin in the nose of the jaw was for... hopefully, I won't ever have to remove it for anything. If I do, I'm guessing drilling and tapping it for a puller would be the way to go, unless it is too hard?

-Bear

I don't think the pin was anything special, so I suspect you'd have no problem drilling and tapping it. I've had maybe two that needed attention out of dozens in that size range. One just needed to be seated a little deeper, so there was only really one that was a problem. Now that you know, if the dynamic starts to move around you'll know why and have no problem fixing it!

 

[682bear]

I don't think the pin was anything special, so I suspect you'd have no problem drilling and tapping it. I've had maybe two that needed attention out of dozens in that size range. One just needed to be seated a little deeper, so there was only really one that was a problem. Now that you know, if the dynamic starts to move around you'll know why and have no problem fixing it!

Bart, I have noticed that the dynamic jaw on this vise does move a very slight amount around the slide...

It is not that the jaw is loose on the slide, the round slide moves in the vise body... maybe a sixteenth of an inch.

I removed the dynamic jaw and determined that the long 'key' in the slide is moving in the groove on the slide. It is retained by two roll pins... and they are not tight... allowing the key to slightly move in the slide.

I've never seen roll pins used for this... these keys are usually held with a solid rivet... or a solid pin that is pressed in place... correct?

I'd like to get your thoughts...

-Bear

 

[G-ManBart]

Bart, I have noticed that the dynamic jaw on this vise does move a very slight amount around the slide...

It is not that the jaw is loose on the slide, the round slide moves in the vise body... maybe a sixteenth of an inch.

I removed the dynamic jaw and determined that the long 'key' in the slide is moving in the groove on the slide. It is retained by two roll pins... and they are not tight... allowing the key to slightly move in the slide.

I've never seen roll pins used for this... these keys are usually held with a solid rivet... or a solid pin that is pressed in place... correct?

I'd like to get your thoughts...

-Bear

I have seen roll pins used, but I'm confident the vise didn't leave the factory that way. They should be a solid pin pressed in as you suggest, although not a super tight fit....should be able to drive them in/out with just a hammer and drift.

I've seen a vise with what I believe was a replacement key held by roll pins, but more often than not my suspicion is someone just has to disassemble the vise 100% because they have to get every speck of dirt out of every crevice on principle and then they lose the pins or they're loose when they go to reassemble and use roll pins.

The key is one area I tell people to leave in place unless it's rusted really bad. The same goes for the tail cap assembly since they rarely go back on with a perfect fit after you remove them.

If your key isn't worn badly you can probably just make some nice fitting pins and be done with it, but even making a key isn't challenging. Getting the pin holes line up can be a challenge though since they're rarely centered! Wilton did a lot of stuff manually back in the day.