Vfd questions

knowitallyankee

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I'm having trouble running a Clausing Colchester 13-in lathe with a vfd. The machine runs fine with a rotary phase converter but I'm having constant problems trying to run it with a vfd. Could there be a fault in the motor that would not show up with a rotary but will cause a vfd to act up?
 
When you say act up, you need to be more specific. Please indicate the VFD model and motor specs. on the motor plate. Does it show a fault code, or is it running issues. Is the VFD output directly connect to the motor and the correct voltage setting, you cannot use the VFD to power the lathe and use the existing switch gear between the VFD and the motor.

I did my residency in Ann Arbor Michigan, I remember going to the Paw Paw festival, a long time ago. Hopefully they still have it.
 
How old is the motor.....I just watched a YouTube that suggested that motors older than 10-15 years might not work with a VFD. The motor has to be a certain type the fellow was reporting. He said ALL motors made within the past 10 years are OK for VFD.
 
How old is the motor.....I just watched a YouTube that suggested that motors older than 10-15 years might not work with a VFD. The motor has to be a certain type the fellow was reporting. He said ALL motors made within the past 10 years are OK for VFD.
Well, sort of.
Older motors can work just fine with a VFD but some may have overheating issues if the VFD is used to reduce or increase their speed.
Some newer motors are built specifically for VFD control. They are marked "Inverter Duty". These are best if you want the widest speed control range. For regular use with no, or not drastic, speed control, most motors in good condition should work with a VFD.

The important thing to remember is the VFD must be wired directly to the motor (only one motor) with no switches etc between. All controls must be wired to the VFD. If the machine has two motors, eg coolant pump, axis drive, etc, you must get a separate VFD for that motor(s) as well.
 
Some older motors may have issues with insulation breakdown when used with a VFD
The fast rising waveform can produce damaging voltage overshoots
 
How old is the motor.....I just watched a YouTube that suggested that motors older than 10-15 years might not work with a VFD. The motor has to be a certain type the fellow was reporting. He said ALL motors made within the past 10 years are OK for VFD.
Respectfully speaking, this is simply untrue.
I have run motors from the 1920’s on a VFD.
Where it is best to use a inverter rated motor.
Even a run of the mill non-inverter rated motor , will operate in the 30Hz to 90Hz range for moderate lengths of time without consequence.
The problem is that the cooling fan is insufficient for the over or under excited windings on the low and top end of the 30 to 90Hz envelope.

When the VFD is set to 60Hz, the performance of the motor is similar or equivalent to being plugged into supplied 3 phase from a power company
 
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The important thing to remember is the VFD must be wired directly to the motor (only one motor) with no switches etc between. All controls must be wired to the VFD. If the machine has two motors, eg coolant pump, axis drive, etc, you must get a separate VFD for that motor(s) as well.
As a point of information,
multiple motors can be connected to a VFD.
The VFD would need to be of sufficient capacity to handle all motor loads.

I work on food packaging equipment.
many of the machines i repair have the arrangement of multiple motors on the same VFD.
The motors all run at the same frequency and at the same time and are not individually controlled
 
Wow! That one generated some interest.
Get comfy, this turned into a novel.
Drive is a Polyspede (Drives Warehouse) Spedestar PC1-050 (5 hp motor).
Lathe original sell date (according to Clausing) was 1975, motor appears to be original.
FLA with 220 volts is 14.
Full load speed 1720.
Service factor 1.15
I originally set the machine up with the original 120 volt contactors to try to retain some of the original controls. With this setup the contactors were ALWAYS closed BEFORE the drive was turned on. After several discussions with Polyspede I also bypassed the contactors to run the motor directly and had exactly the same problem.
I purchased the machine in the fall of 2019 and purchased the drive shortly after that. I did not get the machine operational or hook up the drive until spring of 2022.
This machine is in my heated home shop and is only used occasionally, sometimes maybe only once or twice a week for short periods. Power to the drive was always turned off when the machine was not being used.
Machine operated perfectly for the first 6 months and then started intermittently acting up.
On the Colchester, the MOTOR is not stopped or started or reversed. Stopping, starting and reversing of the SPINDLE are all done with clutches in the headstock so the MOTOR runs at a continuous 60 hz the entire time the machine is running.
Drive was set for 2 sec. acceleration to 60 hz and 2 sec. deceleration (10 sec factory default for both).
I changed carrier frequency from 10 kHz to 15 to lower noise, all of these were later reset to defaults with no effect on the problem.
Amperage upper limit was left at the factory setting (I think 18.6. The tech from Polyspede gave me the menu parameter to check it, it's not in the manual and I already sent the drive back).

After about 6 months THE PROBLEM started at motor startup. LOUD high frequency squeal, acceleration to only about 6 or 7 hz and Amperage through the roof to a little over 36!
Drive was running on a 20a breaker (220v single phase) and even though it only went 5 to 6 seconds before I lost my nerve, it never tripped the breaker, shut itself down or displayed an error.

Cycling power to the drive would usually eventually get it working again but then THE PROBLEM started happening after the motor was running for a few minutes. During operation and with no warning I'd get the loud squeal and the motor would make a LOUD noise I can only describe as a garbage disposal full of walnuts! With the corresponding drop in speed and spike in amps.
My nerves are shot just thinking about it!

Once the drive was in "F!#k-UP MODE" I had to disconnect the outputs to even try anything (initially by opening the contactors and later by removing the leads from the outputs (no change in result)).
When start was pressed, hz went to 60 and amps stayed at 0 (naturally) but the acceleration time was slow. Eventually I did some checking. Keep in mind, nothing connected to the outputs.
Acceleration set to 1 sec became 3 sec.
Acceleration set to 3 sec became 9 sec.
Acceleration set to 5 sec became 15 sec!

That's how far I got over the course of about 2 months and four phone calls to Polyspede before I gave up. Also, as I stated this machine works perfectly fine on a rotary phase converter. The tech at Polyspede was not remotely interested in any of this information and only insisted that there was a problem with the motor.

Paw Paw Wine And Harvest Festival is still going strong, by the way, but I always try to avoid town that weekend because the main streets are closed for parades! I don't care much for people unless they make metal chips! HAHA

Congratulations if you made it this far, I'm looking forward to hearing what all y'all have to say.
Thanks, Mike.
 
Welcome to HM

Also, as I stated this machine works perfectly fine on a rotary phase converter.
IMHO that's your answer, run it off the RPC.
I believe I have the same lathe as you. I started out running all my 3 phase machines off of VFDs, 5 in total. I decided to build my RPC when I acquired the lathe as it has a wide range of speeds, a brake and forward-reverse gears. I felt I didn't really need any of the VFD's features and really didn't want to rewire the lathes controls to a VFD.
Anyway, I do have a recurring problem with the VFD on my 5 hp air compressor, when it runs for an extended period of time it shuts down and gives an "over current" fault message. Letting the unit cool down corrects it. I have tried everything as far as setting parameters etc, and it is properly sized, installed, wire gauge, etc, but it still faults occasionally. I will be wiring the compressor to the RPC when time permits.
 
If the lathe runs on the RPC,
Makes me think that there is a problem with the drive, how its hooked up, and/or programmed
 
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