Wood veneer inlay on brass panel - suggestions?

[dbb-the-bruce]

I would like to inlay wood veneer on brass - potentially for something like the lid of a small brass box. I'm having a hard time finding any info about doing this. Google search is very difficult, as it is much more common to inlay brass in wood and that's what you find when searching.

The idea is too machine shallow pockets and glue the veneer in. Probably end up doing CNC for the pockets. The total size would be on the small side around 4X8" max, and the pockets/inlay would not span the whole area. The veneer is also thin so any expansion difference issues would be limited.

My biggest concern is the glue. What would be the best way to attach the veneer? I'm thinking either epoxy (like the system 3 table top clear coat stuff) or CA glue (thin). I can imagine after a bunch of temperature cycles over a few years all the little bits just popping out.

Looking for references to techniques for doing this sort of thing, actual experiences if you have tried or do this sort of thing or just plain old suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Nogoingback]

Epoxy should work just fine, as long as you choose the correct material and your surface prep is good.
System 3 Clear Coat is not meant to be an adhesive: it's a thin penetrating epoxy. There are many epoxies
that could work for you, but System 3 makes a structural adhesive called T-88 that might be what you need.
An inquiry to System 3's customer service department would clear up any doubts.

 

[hman]

I'd suggest epoxy. It'll stick VERY well to wood, and if you lightly sandblast the pockets in the brass beforehand, it will stick very well there, too. I've done numerous strong "welds" between dissimilar materials by sand blasting the surfaces and applying JB Weld.

 

[Flyinfool]

That is the whole key. The brass has to have a very rough surface for good glue adhesion. You want to select an adhesive that does NOT dry hard. This will allow for some give as the 2 materials expand and contract at different rates.
You want to start with thicker wood and brass so that you can sand / machine them together to make it perfectly flush.

 

[Ken from ontario]

I would have two layers of brass(for the lid of the box) so when you machine the pockets on the top layer , the inlay would fit in the cavity and the back of it can be glued to the second layer that's right under it. this way the inlay surface and the brass surface would be even .

 

[whitmore]

There's an old technique of making stacks of veneers, of different colors, and jigsawing the
stack to make figures... then shuffling the produced items so that the shapes formed are multicolored
arrangements. You could do this same thing with brass and wood veneer sheets, possibly with
a laser cutter, and then assemble the whole onto a backing, glue under pressure, and abrade
(sandpaper) to finish the surface smooth.

It can be done rather easily, and you just need a neutral-colored glue
that sticks to both brass and wood. Like a jigsaw puzzle...

 

[dbb-the-bruce]

Thanks. Epoxy seems like the best choice to start with. I've got the S3 both clear coat and plain. I've used the clear coat before for non-top surface applications and it worked just fine. The main advantage is that it does try much clearer than "plain". I've got both so I'll compare.

I'll also find a way to make sure the pocket bottoms are roughed up or slightly keyed.

The other thing I'm a little nervous about is leveling and polishing the top once the veneer is in place. The brass waste/dust is going to want to get everywhere in the wood. The clear coat might actually help in this case.

-D

 

[tq60]

Experiment first.

Epoxy can be thinned with acetone or alcohol.

Correct epoxy will stay clear and thin well.

Why?

The thinned epoxy will soak into the wood and allow for sealing it as well as better grip.

You mix a batch and thin some in a bowl that you place wood into to soak it up.

Some un-thinned goes on the brass and you scrub it in with a stick.

Place wood in pocket and cover with wax paper (several layers) then place flat weight on top and let it cure for a week.



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[kevin]

I think you need to stay away from epoxy and use a flexible glue instead. Both the wood and the brass will expand and contract at different rates with changes in temperature (and for the wood) with humidity. This expansion and contraction will cause the veneer to separate from the brass. I would consider using a contact cement - this has a "rubbery" consistency which can accommodate some movement.

Also as noted previously, roughing up the brass surface a bit will help the glue to stick. You might consider getting some "scratch brushes" to make this easier. Search for "Pixiss Scratch Brush Pen Set" in the usual places to get a set of four.

 

[B2]

Hi @dbb-the-bruce
You are right to be concern about the wood coming off. Both moisture and temperature expansion and contraction are the enemy. You have some good suggestions above. If your brass is to be thin then you might consider making small holes through , or at least into, the brass to allow the glue to latch on to something. I suppose after cutting your recessed areas you could also just sandblast the entire surface and then polish the top surface back smooth. Then clean the holes out well for the glue.... That would leave the bottom rough for glues to grab on to. The wood is porous so the glue penetrates it anyway. Anyway, glue must adhere via some mechanism. Chemical or mechanical. Wood on brass would be mechanical, at least at the metal surface. One can think of solder or brazing as chemical as the two surfaces alloy.

If you have not studied it you might want to read about Damascened-inlay (jewelry, bowls, vases etc.) These are similar to what you are trying to do and this art form is ancient. The filling materials are commonly metals but the closest fit to yours is where the copper valleys are back filled with multi-colored paint, varnish, lacquer, epoxies and then are polished down to let the higher parts of the copper or brass to show. I say this is closer to your as the expansion properties of the filling materials are a lot different from the copper or brass. In the last decade or more, even the semiconductor world has been using this process to make the critical interconnects between layers.

By the way, it is always difficult to sand/polish areas where the two materials have a different hardness. The softer material (wood) always goes away first.