VN Spindle "key" question VN12

[John TV]

I have not had much time to play with my "new" VN12 but in looking at it I have started to develop questions. I'm wondering if you other VN folks might have some of the answers. Keep in mind I'm completely new to milling so..... you get the picture. Too many questions for one post so let me start with this one. My spindle collet positioning "key" seems to have been completely worn or ground down. From a very grainy copy's of an exploded parts diagram it seems like it should be easily removed. Any thoughts on how this is attached?
Does not show in parts drawing. Pictures low quality from my phone but help explain.
Thanks for your thoughts. More questions to follow.

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[benmychree]

I'd guess that the spindle would have to be removed to find the answer; could be that there may be retaining screws that hold the key in position.

 

[markba633csi]

It looks like there is still enough of it to function- do you really need to remove it? Do your collets look like this one? (from Ebay)
mark

 

[John TV]

Yes they are all VN collets. Doesn't seem to catch the keyway without great care. But also I haven't used the mill enough to get used to her quirks. May just have to live with it till I get the confidence and experience to tear down the spindle head. I'm not there yet.


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[Manderioli]

The key is very similar to my VN 10. However, there is a pin that that seems to go through the collet holder. I have not taken my key out so my assumption is: the key is t shaped where the key portion catches the collets but also has a cylindrical pin that locates the key into the collet holder.

Hopefully I explained this well.

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2109/3403.pdf
On Page 14 of the pdf (page 13 of actual manual) youll notice E-37 1/2 shows the key with a pin. You will likely need to punch the key out towards center of collet holder.

 

[T Bredehoft]

I'm not all that familar with the Van Norman horizontals, can you extend the spindle beyond the nose of the machine? to see if there is a pin or other device holding the key in place?

Edit: correct typo.

 

[Cal Haines]

... My [VN No. 12] spindle collet positioning "key" seems to have been completely worn or ground down. From a very grainy copy's of an exploded parts diagram it seems like it should be easily removed. Any thoughts on how this is attached?
Does not show in parts drawing. Pictures low quality from my phone but help explain. ...

The key is shown on the parts drawing. Here's a better copy:

The collet key is part E-37½. The arbor drive dogs are part 12-744. The keyway in the collet is nominally R=1/2" by 3/16" thick. The key itself has an integral 5/32" pin (called a "tit") that goes into a hole in the spindle (the above drawing shows the location of the hole in spindle). To remove the key, use a 5/32" punch or drift in the hole to tap the key out.

The key can be made from a #608 Woodruff key, which is inexpensive and readily available. Here's a drawing that I did about eight years ago:

The magenta line shows the outline of a #608 Woodruff key. The hole in the spindle is drilled at 15.125 degrees, so that it's perpendicular to the flat on the key. To make a key, machine or grind about 0.23" off of the flat part of the Woodruff key, insert it in the spindle, with a collet to hold it in place and use a transfer punch to locate the pin. Make the pin out of 5/32" drill rod. Grind off the part of the key that sticks out of the end of the spindle.

 

[John TV]

Cal, you have come to my rescue again. Thank you. Time to gather the fixings!


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[samstu]

Slightly off topic, the Williams Superrench 1029 double open end works well for tightening VN 12/16 mill head as it has 11/16 on one end and the not so common 25/32 on other which is needed for the third nut. I purchased one for my VN16 since I didn't already have the 25/32.

Additionally, my VN16 has a blind locating hole for the tilt of the E-37 1/2 key not through drilled like Cal's. Maybe a field or running modification. I had to drill mine out from inside the spindle by feel, fortunately it was softer than the spindle.

 

[John TV]

Thanks for the wrench tip. Just purchased one on eBay.

Made a replacement "key" today. Not real pretty but it works. Had to make two since my spindle key must have been drilled a bit differently than the drawing Cal had provided. My key "tit" was at a 90 degree angle from the flat of the woodruff so actually a bit easier to make than the angled "tit" I made first. I should have noticed that on the one I removed....keen observation must be on my skills to acquire list. That said it was the first project ever made on the mill and the practice was needed.

Thanks for all of your help.


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