Advice on a small milling machine

[Tuba Dave]

Many of the requests for "what should I buy?" are pretty general . Many times it includes the term "small stuff". This does not aid my search for advice as the information is too nebulous . So here are some very specific points:

What I have:
Unimat DB200 with all the accessories (probably going to be the funding source)
Maximat 7
1930's Craftsman 12 x 24 lathe in decent shape but not as sharp as the Maximat

What I need these machines to do right now: (I repair musical instruments for a living)
make hand tools (screwdrivers, small cutters, small scrapers)
fab parts for musical instruments (mostly brass and plastics, all the steel work is on the lathe (tool steel mandrels for dent removal, little screws and hinge rods))
basic shop needs (jigs, holders and clamps, other fixtures for metal and woodworking tools)

Coming up:
I'd like to upgrade my machining by better controlling cutting tool geometry and general precision.
This means making a better grinder rest, indicator holders, more QCTP holders for either lathe, tool height gages, etc.
I will also be getting into production for profit (hopefully) of hand tools for others in my industry. This mainly means making jigs and holders for repeatability in grinding and milling processes.

I am very tired of using the Maximat for a mill and lathe at the same time. Going back and forth between the milling and turning operations is way too time consuming and distracting. Also, the milling capabilities are much less than the turning precision of this very nice lathe.

I will definitely be getting a mill with DRO. This will make some of the repairs I do now much better and easier (for example, clarinets need very precisely placed holes, and right now I have been getting by with a fiddly sort of copying jig on the drill press that is not very precise or rigid -both the jig and the drill press -- the clarinet jig will not fit in the Maximat's work envelope)

I'm thinking of getting a Sherline 5400 mill with installed DRO. The Maximat will become a dedicated precision lathe and stay that way.
The Sherline fits my budget and space requirements. I believe it will be as precise as I can make it at my skill level. Thinking about a larger bench machine is a little problematic due to shop space requirements and the fact that my budget just maxes out at $2000.

I have no doubt the Sherline can handle anything I throw at it in plastic, aluminum, or even brass. My question is, will this machine do this -- Shape and size steel needed for jigs, fixtures, etc.? For example, can I drill through 3/8" (or even 1/4")steel plate and connect the holes to make a slot? Can I use it to make Harold Halls grinder rest out of even mild steel? Can I use it to mill dovetails for BXA tool holders for the 12" lathe? (aluminum holders for the Maximat are not a problem, I'm sure). How hard can I work this machine and still remain in its comfort zone?

Or should I sacrifice something else to move up in budget and size? (and weight -- moving and lifting a 400 pound machine would press the limits of my ability and add the expense of a stand to the package). For example, a PM mill with DRO is already almost $1000 over my budget. That does not include all the R8 tooling, larger vise, etc I'll need to get it working. I already have a lot of tooling that will work on a smaller machine.

Thanks for reading this far and thanks for any advice you have. I feel like I'm at the altar and priest just said "if anyone has any objection .... let him speak now or forever hold his peace" I think I've made my decision and this is the last chance for someone with more experience and knowledge to stand up and say "Sure, now you like that pretty little thing, but just wait two years and you'll be sorry you didn't make a different choice!"

 

[markba633csi]

The Sherline mill sounds reasonable or perhaps one of the small import mini-mills. Folks who buy the 3-in-one machines like Smithy have the same experience as with your Maximat 7: they make better lathes than mills, and changing setups back and forth is problematic
Having separate machines is much preferred to a combo machine. Of course machining steel is more challenging than softer metals no matter the machine. Using cobalt and carbide toolbits helps, but it's slow going on a lightweight mill and you'll get chatter. Buy as much machine as possible if you plan on doing much steel work. The more mass and rigidity the better
-Mark

 

[homebrewed]

At work I had access to a CNC equipped 5400. It was a nice little mill, and came ready to use. With the CNC package it cost about $2700. Later on, I bought a Sieg SX2 for my own use. It cost a lot less, about $600 at the time -- but it needed tweaks and mods to make it really usable. All that took time away from being able to make stuff. It wasn't a big issue for a hobbyist like myself, but that might be a deal-breaker for you.

Good Luck on your decision!

 

[C-Bag]

It really helps when the inquirer lays out what his true work envelope is. I was in somewhat the same pickle and opted for a RF30 as I’d figured a mini mill would cover it and the RF30 was the next size up. At around 650lbs it can handle 3/8” slots in steel and doing dovetails. A mini i wouldn’t want to try.

 

[Aaron_W]

I have a 5400 and quite like it for small projects. I have added a larger (still smallish) mill to do bigger stuff.

The Sherline lathes and mills will work steel and some harder materials, it just takes more time than brass or aluminum. The Sherline mill is an excellent machine for small projects.

Of the projects you mention drilling through steel plate is not a problem, but 3/8" diameter is definitely going to approach its limits. Joining the holes would be possible, but again could be time consuming requiring multiple passes. I have used 3/8" endmills in steel with no issue other than taking it slow. It is a nice, capable mill just small. For the occasional project at its upper end not a problem, but not a good choice if everything is at its upper end of capacity.

The Dovetails on the BXA tool holder might be pushing things. Probably could be done, but that is defiantly a project that I would choose do with my larger mill.

If the majority of your work is clearly in the Sherline's range, and you just have a couple of pushing it projects, then you will probably be happy. I would suggest you get the extended column, as it will give you quite a bit more room under the spindle.

Do be aware the Sherline's DRO is more of a digital display for the handwheels and does not account for backlash. It is based on handwheel or lead screw rotation, not actual position as with a larger DRO.

If you are having doubts about the size of the Sherline, Taig would be another option to look at. Taig's mill is a bit larger / stouter but should still be within your budget. Like Sherline it is also easily converted to CNC if you potentially see going there in the future. There is no other machine (new) within your budget that I could suggest as I think Sherline compares very well to most of the small mills in the under $1500 range.

 

[Bi11Hudson]

Had a DB-200 when I was on the ships. As a "multi machine" it was well suited to the lack of space and limited time to work with it. Nowadays(50 years later) I have separate machines for each function. One related to this conversation is the small vertical mill. I bought a Horrible Fright version because I use it mostly as a drill press. I needed the slow speed to drill small holes in plastic without melting the inside of the hole. (Tap sizing 2-56)

In response to the question above, I use a horizontak milling machine for most of my work. As a model builder, I work with plastics (acrylics &c), brass, ZAMAK, et al. There is some work with steel, but it is an exeption rather than the rule. My horizontal mill is an Atlas, Model MF-C. Footprint is smaller than the Grizzly stand it sits on, except the table. At a guess, 18" by 30", plus a little working room. It is capable of dealing with steel, but slow. I do some milling similar to a vertical mill by using a 90* plate and milling tool arbors, with the over-arm retracted out of the way. Cutting a 1/2 hole in 1-1/4 steel takes time, slow but smooth. Some of the holders have 3/8-16 draw bars, some M10-1.5. Either one fits.

Pricing will vary, particularly these days. I got mine for less than $400 plus shipping and a little repair work. No real cost there, just time. Mostly cleaning up and painting. Tooling was the big issue, mine had a 1" mandrel. Mandrels were available for 7/8, 1", and 1-1/4. The drive end is a MT-2, many tool holders are available in that size. Tooling is a little "primitive" compared to a modern vertical. But much more versatile.

There is a 3 step(or 4) pulley plus a back gear arrangement. Motor is a 1/3 HP, single phase, 1750 RPM. There are many jobs where a vertical mill would be faster. But, I had the "hots" for an archaic horizontal mill anyway, so mine served to pacify my desires as well as serve as a mill. As a hobbyist, I have the time to spare, so don't bother with a "Bridgeport" or clone. Your situation might well preclude such a machine, but it should be at least considered.

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