Clausing 5418 VFD

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Oldseabee

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Thank you all for the great electrical section on VFD. The soon to be mine Clausing 5418 we are pretty sure has a 1.5 hp 208 3 phase motor. I have 220 in my garage but we split that circuit to wire in lights and wall receptacles. I think it's still possible to tie into that same circuit and run a 220 line over to the lathe. Not much draw in overhead lights or wall plugs. Or would I be better off runningbab110 vfd putting out 208 3 phase? Or 220 input to vfd to 208 3 phase. I think running on the 220 would be better but not sure. That's why I'm asking.
And as far as the location of the FVD, mounted to the machine rear cabinet external or in the cabinet with the motor? I'm thinking inside the cabinet just for safety, less chance of it getting damaged.
Any help appreciated
Mike
 
Most VFDs can’t output a higher voltage than your input voltage, so you would be limited in your selection of which VFD you could get if you chose to go 115v. The only ones I saw were low power ones, so not sure if there are any available in 1.5 hp. My vote would be using a 230v VFD on a motor rated for 208v for the larger selection of drives you can use.

I would mount the VFD somewhere that would be easy to get to. There are some faults that need to be cleared by resetting the VFD, so you might need to get at it at some point. You also need to have it in a cabinet or far enough away from the machine so a chip can’t get inside it. One chip touching the wrong part and you will fry it.
 
What about a phase converter VFD ? I was reading that they wire directly to the motor and all original controls work just fine. Sounds simple to me. And less noise than running a RFC. Am I correct or not?
 
Do you mean a static phase converter? I had one on my mill when I first got it and hated it. Since it creates a phase difference to get the motor running and then is basically running your motor in single phase, you will have less than rated motor power available. A VFD is more work to install, but has a lot of flexibility you will not have with any other means of powering the lathe.
 
I just spoke with a person at Phoenix phase converts who said exactly what you said. I asked him about hooking something up to give me 3 phase and using all the lathes regular switches without changing wires. He said only way is with a Rotary phase converted. When I mentioned noise he said that yes the older units were noisy, but the newer models just him along with not much noise. So maybe for me that will work. I want to keep it as simple as possible.

Mike
 
Oldseabee said:
What about a phase converter VFD ? I was reading that they wire directly to the motor and all original controls work just fine. Sounds simple to me. And less noise than running a RFC. Am I correct or not?
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Yes and no. If you are talking about the ones sold on Amazon (DPS Digital Phase Converters) these are nothing more than a static converter with maybe have some digital circuitry, they are pretty much crap. If you are talking Phase Perfect, they are true phase converters (actually they just generate the 3rd phase), and they are quite a bit more expensive (around $800 for their entry level 3Hp converter) then a 2 Hp VFD. The third leg is generated within 2% of the line voltage, so 230-240VAC, you have a 208VAC motor.

A VFD you can set the voltage to a lower amount then the line voltage, so something like the Hitachi WJ200-015SF is a single phase 240VAC input VFD that can output 200-240VAC (most VFD's other than doublers, the output voltage needs to be below the line input line voltage). You also need to look at other components like transformers, contactors, lights and see what they operate at.

You need to also look at the 230/240VAC line to your garage as to what that is rated and what else will be running off of that line and how the breaker providing the power to that line is setup. You cannot just use the same line for both 120 and 240VAC without bringing it to a sub-panel and having separate single breakers for 120 circuits and a double breaker for 230VAC. Keeping it simple I would just go with a 230VAC single phase input 2 Hp VFD, minimum dual breaker size is 20A. If you can pull a separate 230VAC line that is more ideal, otherwise you could overload a single circuit. Most 120VAC circuits for plugs are rated at 15A so the largest VFD that could be run off of this would be around 1Hp. These are a hi level view, you should check with an electrician and local code as there are many electrical regulations specific to VFD's. The circuit/breaker needs to be rated at 125% of the VFD input amps (single phase), and is not a function of the motor size it is driving. Also, VFD's do not play nice with GFCI's on the same circuit, a real problem if they are required.
 
I'm running a brand new 220 line for the garage. I had a new 200 smp panel installed with solar panels 2 years ago. Best thing I've did. My electric bill is $10.00 monthly for a line fee. So I have room in the panel. In fact I had a future conduit buried under the new concrete just for a reason like this.
I'm going to go with a rotary phase converter. I found a local guy with 30 + years experience and a 5 hp one will cost me 490.00. That way I'm not wiring up the lathe. It works just fine as it is now.
Now time to clean my garage to make room for the newbto me lathe.
 
I want to add something about solar panels. If you own them you can write off most of the costs when you do your taxes. Mine came with a 20 year life expectation. I won't make it that many more years. I'm 72. But I do like free electric power. My system will pay for itself in a couple of years.
 
Oldseabee said:
I want to add something about solar panels. If you own them you can write off most of the costs when you do your taxes. Mine came with a 20 year life expectation. I won't make it that many more years. I'm 72. But I do like free electric power. My system will pay for itself in a couple of years.
Click to expand...
We had a system with twenty-two 380 W panels put in June, 2022. Also have 9 kW/H of battery back up (Generac inverter, Panasonic LiOn batteries). So far, so good in "sunny" Michigan (we live 45 miles from Grand Rapids, MI; 7th cloudiest city in the U.S.). Our Generac self-sufficiency report shows since June 2022 that our solar has provided 69% of our electrical usage. We have a geothermal heating system which is a pretty big draw; happy so far too!

In our case, the system will never pay for itself in my lifetime (I'm 63). We had ours installed by Power Home Solar/ Pink Energy. Ours was a ~$64K system before the 30% tax credit; about $44K in reality. Our electric bills averaged $175 a month; solar was projected to get us down to ~$40 a month or save ~$1600 a year. Our payback would be 27 years if we hit their projection ($1600/$2100 or 76% self-sufficient). We're at 69% self-sufficient so off by ~10%; 27 year payback will be closer to 30 years.

We're still happy with it as it does give us a battery generator. We just had an ice storm hit mid-Michigan that knocked out power. Ours was out for just an hour or so, others have been out for a few days. Regardless, we'd have our well, furnace, a frig and the internet so I can hit this forum during the power outage.

Bruce


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Bruce, sunny California helps with the solar. But we have off days to.
On your Clausing lathe you said yours was a 2 hp? Not sure what the 5418 has. We have to pull the rear access panel to find out. When you switched your motorboat to a singl phase did all the original controls still work ok?
Mike
 
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