Finally getting a lathe G9972

[Road_Clam]

So after 3 years of research, financial commitment setbacks , indecisiveness and lack of economic availability I bought the Grizz G9972 . This is not a popular choice when doing internet searches but the specs best matched my specific needs. The power is rated at 1hp and I caculated the wattage to be about 1440W . I have a TON of carbide coated inserts and tooling collected from my previous job so my 1st question is can this lathe work with carbide coated inserts ? I'm reading feedback that many smaller benchtop lathes struggle with efficiently utilizing insert tooling and run better with old skool HSS ground tool bits . Looking for some experienced feedback from guys that have experimented with both HSS and carbide tooling. Thanks ! I'm more of a CNC milling guy with experience, and benchtop hobbly lathes are new to me.

 

[Jim F]

HSS is the way to go, you do not have the speed or power to drive carbide.
I will get flamed for that, but that is OK.
I have a mill/drill with 1 hp and 2k max ,.and a 1947 SB9, I have no carbide tooling that is not for special ops.

 

[Martin W]

Congratulations,on your purchase.
Martin

 

[Larry$]

You should be able to use some carbide inserts. That said, I like HSS in spite of the fact that my machines are powerful enough to use carbide. I do use some carbide tooling. The sharper the carbide, the easier it is for the machine to keep it cutting deep enough to work as intended. If you look at the edge of an insert meant for cutting steel it will be rounded, not sharp. Carbide is brittle so that rounded edge is less subject to being chipped than a sharp one. Right behind that cutting edge is some sort of hollow designed to form a curl and then cause it to break. Giving the sought after chips that look like Cs or 6s in stead of the miserable Christmas ornament rats nests. Inserts designed for roughing will usually have larger rounds on the cutting edges than those for more finishing operations. They will last longer and remove more material before they wear down and become thinner on the cutting edge and loose the relief angle on their edge. Here's the BUT part for the lighter less powerful machines: a tool needs to be cutting deep enough to get the chip to ride up and over the cutting edge and form a chip rather than rubbing on the work and not properly forming a chip. Chips will carry away the heat rubbing will increase the temperature of the work and the insert, neither being desirable. Finishing inserts will be designed for less depth of cut and you can then more successfully use them on a hobby lathe. Inserts designed for softer metals can have very sharp edges and work well cutting steel but the edge won't last as long, chips won't be properly formed and will get expensive in terms of production achieved per $ spent on inserts. Great for aluminum though.

Worn out carbide tooling is sold as scrap, crushed and used by some manufactures to make new tools. Since the scrap contains all sorts of different formulations the results may be less desirable than tooling from high quality manufacturers. Cobalt is the primary binding material in lots of carbide tooling. It is expensive compared to some other elements that can be added to reduce costs. It is also dangerous to breath the dust so be careful if you grind carbide. When the term "carbide" is used in reference to cutting tools it is generally Tungsten Carbide. There are other carbides. Tool design is a very deep subject loaded with lots of variables and opinions. Play around with various tooling and see what works best for you.

 

[thomas s]

I have a 12X36 Atlas. All I use is HSS easy to sharpen it works for me. If you take a ride to Gloucester this summer please let me know.

 

[jwmay]

Because you already have the carbide, the easiest way to find your answer is to try it. But here's a short story since I'm here.
I used to own a 2013 2hp Grizzly Metal lathe. This lathe comes with carbide tooling. Before that, I had a 10" Atlas lathe. So a friend of mine had these little 3/8 carbide insert bits. He gave them to me. I tried them on the Grizzly, and quickly realized they were junk. I used mostly high speed steel anyways. But I used one Grizzly carbide tool for tough stuff. Fast forward 5-8 years. The Grizzly is gone. I once again have a 10" Atlas. I happen to come across those freebie carbide insert bits in my tool box. I figure "what the heck, let's see how this goes". Long story short: All my toolholders are loaded with those freebie "junk" insert holders I was given all those years ago. They work great on my supposedly floppy, flexy, underpowered 1940's lathe, and provide a superior finish to anything I can grind with HSS.
So just try out what you have. You'll know pretty quick whether or not it's working out. THEN, if it doesn't work, put them away, and try again after you've got some experience with the machine under your belt.

 

[Road_Clam]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. I have four 1/2x4" blanks but would like to save them if I need some type of funky profile. I did order a set of 1/2" pre-ground HSS tool bits . For the $40 its worth the experimentation. My lathe is due to arrive on 3/10 . Very excited !

 

[mikey]

Mr. Clam, yes, you can use carbide on your lathe BUT you will have an 11" lathe with 1HP and this is not the target machine the insert makers had in mind when they designed their inserts, sorry. Nevertheless, some inserts will work for you but you need to choose them well.

If I were you, the first thing I would do is order David Best's book on inserted carbide tooling. This is, by far, the most complete source of advice on carbide tooling anywhere, for any price. David will guide you on everything you need to know about the subject, from choosing the right quick change tool post to sizing the tool holders to choosing the right inserted carbide tool holders and inserts for your lathe and your level of experience. Quite frankly, the book is aimed squarely at guys exactly like you and is the closest you will ever get to having a machining mentor in hard copy. David is also one of our forum members and if you ask a question of him he will answer you.

With that said, inserts are not a panacea. HSS is still a viable choice and this is especially true for smaller lathes like yours. I happen to own an 11" lathe with a 2HP motor and prefer HSS over carbide 90+% of the time. This might be because I sorta know how to grind a tool so I may be a bit biased but regardless, HSS will also work well for you.

A lot (maybe most) of hobby guys prefer inserted carbide tooling and that's fine. The reality is that carbide is the right choice some of the time for some of the materials we turn but it is not the right choice all of the time. The same is true of HSS. The hobby guy who knows how to use inserts AND can grind and use HSS is able to use the right tool for the job at hand. Ultimately, that is sort of where you want to be.

My best advice: first, buy David's book. It is a must-read for all hobby machinists. Second, return the pre-ground HSS set you bought and contact @Z2V or @ttabbal and ask them to grind some tools for you. Either of them can grind very good HSS tools that will last you a decade or more if maintained and their tools will work better than any pre-ground HSS you can buy. I am sure of this; I've seen their work. Their prices will be more than fair, I assure you.

Once you have chosen some tooling based on David's recommendation and also have some decent HSS tooling from either of the guys I listed, do some comparison cutting on your lathe and come to your own conclusions. If you would, report on your findings; it will help a lot of new guys that are following behind you.

 

[Road_Clam]

Mr. Clam, yes, you can use carbide on your lathe BUT you will have an 11" lathe with 1HP and this is not the target machine the insert makers had in mind when they designed their inserts, sorry. Nevertheless, some inserts will work for you but you need to choose them well.

If I were you, the first thing I would do is order David Best's book on inserted carbide tooling. This is, by far, the most complete source of advice on carbide tooling anywhere, for any price. David will guide you on everything you need to know about the subject, from choosing the right quick change tool post to sizing the tool holders to choosing the right inserted carbide tool holders and inserts for your lathe and your level of experience. Quite frankly, the book is aimed squarely at guys exactly like you and is the closest you will ever get to having a machining mentor in hard copy. David is also one of our forum members and if you ask a question of him he will answer you.

With that said, inserts are not a panacea. HSS is still a viable choice and this is especially true for smaller lathes like yours. I happen to own an 11" lathe with a 2HP motor and prefer HSS over carbide 90+% of the time. This might be because I sorta know how to grind a tool so I may be a bit biased but regardless, HSS will also work well for you.

A lot (maybe most) of hobby guys prefer inserted carbide tooling and that's fine. The reality is that carbide is the right choice some of the time for some of the materials we turn but it is not the right choice all of the time. The same is true of HSS. The hobby guy who knows how to use inserts AND can grind and use HSS is able to use the right tool for the job at hand. Ultimately, that is sort of where you want to be.

My best advice: first, buy David's book. It is a must-read for all hobby machinists. Second, return the pre-ground HSS set you bought and contact @Z2V or @ttabbal and ask them to grind some tools for you. Either of them can grind very good HSS tools that will last you a decade or more if maintained and their tools will work better than any pre-ground HSS you can buy. I am sure of this; I've seen their work. Their prices will be more than fair, I assure you.

Once you have chosen some tooling based on David's recommendation and also have some decent HSS tooling from either of the guys I listed, do some comparison cutting on your lathe and come to your own conclusions. If you would, report on your findings; it will help a lot of new guys that are following behind you.

Thanks for the comprehensive reply ! Comments noted !