Help me choose which tools to buy!

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Garrett Lee

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Hello everyone!

Quick summary: I need to properly equip a Bridgeport clone mill and engine lathe for teaching the basics of machining to high school and college students. Budget is pretty good. What should I get and where should I get it from?

In more detail: I am the coordinator for the mechatronics program at a state college (think community college but offers a few 4-year degrees) in south central Florida. For my sins, they have asked me to teach the CNC I class next semester. I had convinced the folks that be to purchase a new manual mill and lathe in addition to our EMCO CNC mill and CNC lathe, but that plan came to a screeching halt when I found out the maintenance department had kept a JET JTM-1 Bridgeport clone and GH-1340T geared head lathe from when we used to have a machining program, but weren't using them anymore (nobody left who knows how to run them) and would have no problems letting me use them for teaching (probably so they can learn as well). The catch is, they didn't keep any of the tooling apart from what was on or in the machines themselves. Since I managed to get a huge chunk of cash dedicated to machining under this year's budget, I'm going to spend a bunch of it on equipment and tooling before I have to release the funds for something else.

Here's where I need your help. What all do you think I should be buying for this? I've got a list of things below that we have on hand at the moment, and a list of everything I've thought of that we could use, but I know I'm missing stuff (especially on the lathe side), and would also like advice on what brands and where to buy. I can spend the premium on good equipment (i.e. I don't have to purchase the cheap Harbor Freight stuff), but I do have to show value for money. Online sources are preferred, if possible. New equipment would also be preferred, as it makes getting approval by higher-ups a little easier.

As for what projects I'm planning on, the students are not going to be spending a lot of time on the manual equipment, but just enough to get a sense of what's going on before I put them to work writing programs for the CNC machines. The student's main task on the mill will probably be to take a chunk of flat bar aluminum (probably 1/2" x 2" or so), square it up, and center, drill and tap a hole in the center. I'm not sure yet what I want to have them do on the lathe - probably turn a piece of aluminum down to a particular diameter, smooth out the front face, drill and tap, and cut the part off. I don't want to limit the tools to just those operations, though, as the CNC machines we have are small benchtop units that are limited in what they can do, and I'd like to be able to make other things as required (and also show off the capabilities of said machines to the students if convenient).

Current tools for the mill:
-R8 collets in 1/8" increments from 1/8" to 3/4"
-20 pc Harbor Freight end mill set
-Jacobs chuck on 5/8" rod
-6" wide Chinese vise on turning base
-4 V-blocks (2 6"W x 3.5"H x 2.5"D, 2 4"W x 2.75"H x 1.75"D)
-Some clamp-down stuff (not a full set)

Current tools for the lathe:
-1/8-3/4 Jacobs chuck on Morse taper for tailstock
-3-jaw chuck
-4-jaw chuck
-Faceplate
-Steady rest
-5pc Harbor Freight cutting tool set
-6" Dial Calipers

Things I'm pretty sure I'm going to purchase:
-Set of thin parallels
-Full set of drill bits (fractional, numbered, and lettered)
-Nice set of taps and dies
-Tap holder
-Lever dial indicator
-Regular dial indicator
-Micrometer set (0-1", 1-2", 2-3")
-Edge finders
-1-2-3 blocks
-Live center
-Centerdrills (lathe and mill)
-Machinist's tool chest
-Machinist's squares

Things I think I'd like to purchase, but may not be able to justify under teaching:
-Boring tool (~2")
-More collets
-Center finder
-Reamers
-Rotary table
-Dividing head
-Knurling tools
-Granite surface plate
-Height gauge
-Face mill

So? Any ideas on what exactly I should get and where?

Garrett Lee
 
Your list looks pretty complete . I would suggest MSC's big book online . They sell top quality tooling as well as some lower grades .

Oh , and to answer your question on which tools to buy ………………………..the answer you'll always get on this site is ALL OF THEM ! :)

:welcome:
 
Welcome!!
You have a lot of money there. Impressive budget.
Like Dave said, MSC is good, Travers has specials for decent quality items from time to time.
McMaster Carr pretty much carries professional quality unless they say "economy".
Youre gonna need all of it.
 
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I would recommend a boring head, and a tool makes vise to hip with your list. Fill out your clamping set, and look at gear cutter arbors (mainly because that is what I think about a lot lately).

joe
 
All industrial tool would be a good place also. If you contact them by phone and tell them it's for a school they have different pricing. I'd look into buying quality tooling which will take more abuse than some HF junk. Good to hear some programs are getting rejuvenated we need them for our kids futures.
 
I would like to add to your list of stuff you might consider:
  • Lathe tools - if you are going to hand out a tool to each student, go with brazed carbide and teach them how to sharpen and maintain them with a diamond stone. They will need to be dressed before use anyway. Cheapest way to go and very tough tools. If you trust them the consider inserted carbide tools and I would go for an SCLCR tool holder and CCMT inserts for most stuff and CCGT inserts for aluminum. More expensive but also more capable. If you are good at teaching how to grind tools then HSS tools are the classic tools to focus on and is a skill well worth learning. Also consider a Diamond Tangential Tool holder to make it even simpler.
  • Boring tools - If I was a student, I would prefer to learn to bore an accurate hole. It takes little skill to ream a hole but you may not have the reamer for the hole size you need. In that case, you must bore it if you need accuracy. For school, I think the cheap Chinese brazed carbide tools for the lathe are okay enough to use. If you want better, look into the SCLCR sets in steel. If you want really good then go for solid carbide bars that use inserts. For the mill, I consider a boring head an essential tool but here, I would stick with cobalt-HSS bars; they will perform well on your mill.
  • I would not buy a rotary table, dividing head or super spacer unless you define a real need for them.
  • Definitely buy a Scissors Knurler. Eagle Rock makes the best; get the heavy-duty one.
  • I suggest a fly cutter instead of a face mill. I recommend the Tormach Superfly. This tool uses a single insert instead of multiple ones like a face mill uses. Cheaper, works well with lower horsepower equipment and produces good results.
  • I would strongly consider buying an ER collet chuck for your mill, maybe ER-32. It will hold any end mill or cutting tool you will likely need, will run smoother and more accurately and will extend the life of your tooling. In fact, I would consider buying the Tormach TTS tool holding system - check it out as it has a lot of advantages.
  • Buy center drills for the lathe to drill holes for your live center. Buy spotting drills for starting holes for drills.
Otherwise, you list looks pretty good for starters. Things WILL evolve.
 
Check also with KBC tool and Shars. I have a lot of Shars stuff simply because it has been good and reliable. I think that I would start them out grinding HSS tools for lathe and flycutter. You can get a double ended boring bar for around $7 that will take small 3/16 square or round HSS tool bits. That will double for boring or thread cutting. Or just buy the bits and have kids make one out of 1/2: square or round stock. After that progress to brazed carbide tools.
You will need dial indicators and dial test indicators for centering. Igauging has been a good brand and cheap.Then you run into problem of how to mount them. Get 3/8", 1/4" and size smaller (.234"?) drill rod and have kids make angle blocks, adapters and mounts. Drill and tap for set screws. Cut rods to length needed.

I would get a set of Jo blocks. Have the kids learn to read the mic measuring them and to build up measurements for using a height gauge or other inscribing device. Throw in a sine bar and get the kids to mill/drill to an angle. If you have a student with talent, get him/her to make some tools for the shop for extra credit.

I would look for a good rotaxry table with dividing plates and tailstock when yo can justify it. Grizzly H7527 for an example. Skip the dividing head.

Have you considered contacting Mr Pete, AKA Tubalcain? He is a retired shop teacher on You Tube. Also there are a bunch of well known You tube people who would I bet be happy to assist and give advice.

As above, good to hear some programs are coming back to life again. Good Luck!!! Charles
 
I would also recommend you look towards Shars or other similar quality suppliers for most if not all of your tooling needs. While they are not in the same class as Brown & Sharpe, Mitutoyo, and Starrett, they are more than adequate for the learning process. Our local technical college originally invested in the more expensive tooling and tools thinking they would be the ones the students would be most likely to buy and use after graduation. They quickly found out students (especially beginners) had no idea how to treat measuring tools and quite frequently dropped them or ran them into a machine. Beyond that at the end of each semester many of the higher quality tools seemed to get legs and just disappear.

They now buy Shars and other less costly brands knowing some tools could be destroyed, and others may just disappear. Since the conversion the damage hasn't changed much, but the tool loss has diminished considerably. In our case the tools didn't carry any markings to identify them as school property, nor were students required to "check them out" from the storage area. Should you decide to go with the higher priced tools I suggest they be clearly marked with "Property of XXXX Never Sold", and set up a system that tracks which students have "checked out" which tools. I would also recommend mandatory return of all tools at the end of each class. These precautions will help minimize the possibility of loss.

Loss may not seem a prime concern going into the program, but consider our local school was replacing lost and damaged tooling at the rate of nearly $10,000.00 per semester until they instituted a program to better track them. Granted this is a large school with several hundred students in classes for various disciplines. They do have a substantial budget, but obviously can't withstand loss rates of that magnitude indefinitely.

Some of the "like to have" items may be available at no cost from local shops. Things like rotary tables and dividing heads are not used as commonly today as they were in past years. Many shops have them laying in the corner under a layer of dust simply because they cannot see throwing them away. Other tools like height gauges and surface plates become available as shops either downsize or upgrade. Like the previously mentioned items they often sit around unused for years before the owners finally dispose of them to free up space for more productive machinery.

Personally I would run adds in the local papers, social media, and craigslist asking for these items to be donated. Many shop owners would be more than happy to see their unused assets go to a school for learning purposes rather than sending them off to a landfill. Our local school regularly gets tools, tooling, machinery, and even stock drops at no charge from local shops because the owners want to help educate newcomers to the profession. They also feel better taking a tax write off on the items they donate rather than see perfectly good assets hauled off to the trash.
 
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