Is the Tormach right for me?

A friend of mine was shopping for a smaller CNC for his firearm manufacturing start-up. He seriously considered the Tormach but settled on Charter Oak. Charter Oak has a larger work envelop, 3hp, spindle motor along with other bells and whistles. He went with the cat-30 taper spindle option rather than the R-8. For engraving he bought a aftermarket program, it was IIRC $900 and will serialize receivers in consecutive order along with logo etc. I'd talk to them before making a decision.

Mike
 
I went to Charters web site and looked at there CNC mill. Like most mills the base machine is made in china. It looks to be a RF45 clone. the head can swivel and loose tram. They left the manual quill that relies on a clamp to keep it ridged. They give the base price of the machine and the price of the 4th axis but do not give the price of the optional stand or chip tray. They talk briefly about there quick change tooling but do not give a price. They talk briefly about there BT30 spindle but do not give a price.
There top spindle speed is only 3800 RPM very slow by today standards. If you are like me and run lots of small end mill that speed is to slow. A Tormach 1100 has a spindle speed of 5000 RPM and the 770 has a speed of 10200
I have a 770 and run end mills 1/4" and below most of the time so the higher speed is good for me. I have less then there base price with stand, chip tray and 4th axis.

Dave
 
Well the war dept in my house has given me the go ahead on a cnc mill and got me doing the happy dance for sure but still not completely sold on the Tormach. Unless I am missing something, its essentially a light duty Chinese RF type mill sans the cranks, a turnkey 34 stepper xyz control in a really nice paint/sheetmetal package. Is that a fair and accurate description??Another big plus I see is the company behind the machine. Without elaborating we all know that is a very important for maintenance, support and resale value. Most everything Ive read and seen on you tube indicates they are a great outfit and good to work with.
My hesitation is the price once you add all the options. Sure its great to pick and choose each and every item but seriously, why list a base price that doesn't include the control? Equipped the way I want it it will be $17,500 ish dropped at the end of my drive. To me thats used haas VMC kind of money! I know the pitfalls of that thinking as well. Its Howard huge and aint goin in my basement plus one service call or parts order will send costs skyward. My gut feels like the 17.5k tormach should be more like 12.5k zip code.
Am I thinking straight???
Are there any comparable companies other than Charter Oak offering similar setups?
 
The problem I have with buying a used CNC mill is does the machine have 10 years of life left or 10 hours. Will you be running it 8 hrs a day pumping out parts for a contract or will you run it a few hours a week making parts for your hobby.
The fit and finish on a Tormach is far better than your run of the mill china built hobby mill of the same size. I know this because my first 2 mills were a Horable Freight and an Enco Both had to be scraped to run close to good.
If you have the money I'd buy the Tormach.

Dave
 
Cheeseking said:
Well the war dept in my house has given me the go ahead on a cnc mill and got me doing the happy dance for sure but still not completely sold on the Tormach. Unless I am missing something, its essentially a light duty Chinese RF type mill sans the cranks, a turnkey 34 stepper xyz control in a really nice paint/sheetmetal package. Is that a fair and accurate description??
Click to expand...

Speaking as one who owns one, nope, it's not a fair and accurate description. That's a very facile and superficial summary. Read the Tormach white papers. Look at the NYCCNC videos (I'm sure you have). The Tormach 1100 is a solid, engineered from blank paper R&D/small manufacturing industrial quality machine. It just runs. Can't speak to Charter Oak, but every now and then (Bridgeport mill, SB10, Monarch10EE) a company just gets absolutely everything right and builds a legendary machine that just towers over the others. Tormach did that with the 1100. The 770 seems to be equally capable, just a bit easier to live with in a home shop.

But. Also having been on the Tormach board at CNC zone for a while, and seeing a few (very few...) flameouts, my reco is don't buy one. You'll never be happy, you'll always think you overpaid, and you'll be grumbling forever. Don't do it. It's a big investment for most of us. If you are not completely, absolutely sure it's the best choice, buy something else or wait until you are. Go see some- most Tormach owners will do demos. Get on the CNCzone board and read the whole thing-back to 2006. Read the competitive machine boards.

But don't buy one right now. There may be a better price/performance fit for your specific situation. You'll know it when you see it. Until you do, hold off. Hope this helps....
 
GL.. I appreciate the feedback. Its good to know that actual owners will step up and confirm or dispute comments. In fact I am leaning heavily toward the Tormach for many reasons including the ones you touched on. My attempt at at quick summary notwithstanding, before I drop that kind of $$ I plan to do some research and it will be anything but facile . I most definitely want to see one in person also. If John ends up doing the open house in early spring I will be going for sure!
 
If you are looking for yet more information from other Tormach owners, allow to add my two cents.

The truth is I could not have afforded to purchase this machine new. By pure luck (and I kiss the Universe every time I come to realize how lucky I was), I was able to find an used PCNC1100. Do note it is not fair to call this machine used as it had been in essence turned ON once. I tell you, I was VERY LUCKY!

Since then all I have experienced are orgasmic scenarios. The machine is beyond amazing! The day before I had the machine I was the lousiest machinist on the planet. Shortly after that I became the lousiest machinist on the planet with output that looks like I know what I am doing. It is the machine, of course! Before, no mechanical contraption would work. Today, pretty much every single item I build works so well, I have a very hard time believing it came from my own doing. Then again, it is the machine and the system. They are extremely well built and what it delivers is just out of this world!

You will find people all over the place, though. Some individuals would want the PCNC1100 to behave like a multi million dollar mill. It isn't. But, do you want to build Space Shuttle technology parts? Anyway, most of these folks will tell you the machine is junk. It isn't!

You may want to scour the CL for an used machine. They are hard to come by but they do show up every now and then. Especially from people who have grown their business so much, they go for a VMC. Or you can spend the big bucks. Do be certain your business case can support such an expense, or you are wealthy enough not to lament such a transaction. I had to go out of my ways to get mine, and haven't lamented the move not even once! I didn't pay $17.5K, though...
 
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