Jones and shipman 540P help

[Deema]

Hi I’ve bought what I had hoped was a really good 540P.......only I now believe it may be a complete lemon! So, in fairness to the chap I bought it from he wants to ‘see me right’. So, I now need to assess just how bad it is and whether it’s worth trying to sort out.
The front to back main adjustment has 140 thou of backlash, circa 3mm! Rather excessive! So, a new nut and screw are required. Tick, he will buy and send me a new one.
The wheel flange holders of which I got 3 are completely worn out. The nuts will push onto the threads and the tapers look to have taken a beating. The spindle nose looks fine.
It’s such a shame, I bought it from a small shop that made and refurbished plastic injection moulding tools for the automotive industry. In the pictures it looked brilliant, original paint, almost pristine.
What should I check and what’s the best way to check it? Here is my initial thoughts......haven’t thought of how to check each.....any pointers would be welcome
I’m guessing I need to check the micro adjust, that I think is on a different screw?
Vertical adjust nut and screw
Spindle bearings for play, end and lateral
Wear on the ways.
Hydraulic leak.

I’d love to get my hands on a copy of the maintenance manual, but can only find UK Lathes with a copy. I’m a little reluctant to start sinking more money into this until I’m sure the machine is worth it. Any pointers on any for sale / downloadable?

 

[Choiliefan]

Are you a member of practicalmachinist.com?
There are few Brits there who are very familiar with these machines and can offer tips.

 

[Deema]

Thanks for the suggestion……not yet!

 

[Saxguy]

Hi Deema
I have a copy of the manual, and I will be happy to send it to you if you still require one.

I too have a 540P, along with the coolant tank setup, which I bought from an engineering company about three years ago. I paid $2000 NZ for it (about a thousand pounds equiv)
The machine had spent most its life in their toolroom so they told me, but it was now in "production". When I looked at it, it was surrounded by oil granules, and obviously it was leaking oil like a so-and-so. There had been attempts to stem the tide as felt wadding had been added for bed way wipers, which did nothing but collect the oil from the bed vees and help deposit it to the floor, adding to the mess.

After I got the machine home, I pulled the hydraulic tray out and cleaned out the old oil. It was a real sad sight. The oil looked like it hadn't been changed in a long LONG time. The sprocket gears were worn and the chain had stretched slightly. These were renewed. During the time I waited for the new sprockets, I cleaned up the machine. It came up looking like near new.
I re-fitted the tank/pump assembly after adding a new steel filter/oil pickup, and started her up. Everything looked rosy. I made the mistake of doing this at the end of the day, and on returning the next morning my jaw dropped. My grinder room was awash with about 15lts of virgin hydraulic oil which had spread wall to wall. I was gutted!

I sponged up as much as I could, putting it into a large bucket so it might settle out the muck and I could re-use it. I left it for quite a long time as it happened, and it cleared like new. As for the actual leak, it couldn't have been the machine running, so that left the tray. I found upon further inspection, a couple of pin-holes that had through the moving process (and tank cleaning!) had obviously opened up more (than when it was in the engineering works). It was a bitter-sweet moment, as now I had actually found the oil-leaking issue, but had I have been more thorough and tested the tank integrity (knowing there was a leak somewhere-duh), I wouldnt have been left with such a mess to clean up.

Made a new tank (stainless steel this time) and all is well.
I still want to pressure test the hydraulic pump system (it shows this in the manual), as I think it may be set a little low, which could impact on the wear on the ways. Also, and this is the worst part, the front to rear backlash (like you have). Seems a little sloppy, maybe a 1.5mm. Cant see how to take this up, or even if there is a way of doing so, as there doesnt seem to be easy access to the nut without some major disassembly.

I would be keen to hear from anyone who has used the J&S toolroom grinders, if this is possible, and-or, if the backlash is even a problem as such.

 

[Deema]

Hi I’ve bought what I had hoped was a really good 540P.......only I now believe it may be a complete lemon! So, in fairness to the chap I bought it from he wants to ‘see me right’. So, I now need to assess just how bad it is and whether it’s worth trying to sort out.
The front to back main adjustment has 140 thou of backlash, circa 3mm! Rather excessive! So, a new nut and screw are required. Tick, he will buy and send me a new one.
The wheel flange holders of which I got 3 are completely worn out. The nuts will push onto the threads and the tapers look to have taken a beating. The spindle nose looks fine.
It’s such a shame, I bought it from a small shop that made and refurbished plastic injection moulding tools for the automotive industry. In the pictures it looked brilliant, original paint, almost pristine.
What should I check and what’s the best way to check it? Here is my initial thoughts......haven’t thought of how to check each.....any pointers would be welcome
I’m guessing I need to check the micro adjust, that I think is on a different screw?
Vertical adjust nut and screw
Spindle bearings for play, end and lateral
Wear on the ways.
Hydraulic leak.

I’d love to get my hands on a copy of the maintenance manual, but can only find UK Lathes with a copy. I’m a little reluctant to start sinking more money into this until I’m sure the machine is worth it. Any pointers on any for sale / downloadable?

Wow, what a horrific situation!! That would be one of my worst nightmares….hydraulic oil swimming pool!!!
I managed to get hold of a copy of the manual, appreciate the offer.
I understand from a tool room guy who used to use them that the backlash makes no difference unless your grinding to an edge. Anyway, I made a new cross slide screw and nut. I couldn’t work out how to put a thread on here of my work to renovate it so did one on a different forum which is here:

Jones and Shipman 540P Rebuild (Round 2)

I thought I’d share my adventures with a new to me surface grinder. I’ve done a lot of woodworking machine restorations, and only dabbled a bit with metal working machines, so this is a first! Now, I know less than would fit in the back of a postage stamp about grinding, but I do have jobs that...

www.ukworkshop.co.uk

 

[Saxguy]

Wow, what a horrific situation!! That would be one of my worst nightmares….hydraulic oil swimming pool!!!
I managed to get hold of a copy of the manual, appreciate the offer.
I understand from a tool room guy who used to use them that the backlash makes no difference unless your grinding to an edge. Anyway, I made a new cross slide screw and nut. I couldn’t work out how to put a thread on here of my work to renovate it so did one on a different forum which is here:

Jones and Shipman 540P Rebuild (Round 2)

I thought I’d share my adventures with a new to me surface grinder. I’ve done a lot of woodworking machine restorations, and only dabbled a bit with metal working machines, so this is a first! Now, I know less than would fit in the back of a postage stamp about grinding, but I do have jobs that...

www.ukworkshop.co.uk

I took a look at your pics and the journey you documented.... fantastic! I wish I had documented my J&S stripdown when I did the hydraulics. You have way more printed info on the machine than I do, as my "manual" is only basic operator. Maybe I could cadge a better copy from you instead?
I'm certainly going to copy and print out your pics and description (if you do not object?)
Maybe not quite as interesting to you, but I did just finish a great restoration of an Adcock & Shipley horizontal mill. It looked a bag of poo when I got it, and the gearbox was stuffed. Now, it looks and runs like it just came out of the factory, following COMPLETE stripdown, all new bearings, seals etc etc, and a WOW spray job. Cant even bring myself to use it and get it 'mucky' LOL.
One last thing, is that when I cleaned out the oil tray (back to the J&S now), it looked as clean as yours nearly. However, the small brown spots in the middle were actually pin holes. So, if you ever find oil pooling around your machine, maybe consider this if you can't find the actual source elsewhere. Yes what a PITA the hydraulic tank assembly is to remove/service.
Now.... about that manual you were going to forward to me.... ;-)

 

[Deema]

I always love any refurbishment threads, so if your bored and decide to do one that would be great. If anything in my refurbished thread is of use, please feel free to download anything.

 

[Saxguy]

Thank you so much. Sent you my email in chat. Will certainly upload some pics of my A&S Mill refurb in the next few days. Just cooking the turkey right now though... mid Christmas day here. Look forward to a few good conversations and pic swaps etc.
Have a great Christmas and thanks again.