Sheldon WM-56-P Value

[Braf1895]

Good day all,

I have a family friend who's trying to sell a Sheldon WM-56-P out of their basement of a deceased relative. I'm looking to buy it as I've been meaning to add a proper lathe to my shop for a while. It looks to be in decent shape, and I'll be going over there some time this week to check for run out, condition of the ways, tooling, etc.

My question is this, would you lower your offer if you needed dissemble it yourself to get it out of said basement, and if so by how much?

It's in an old house in the middle of nowhere, and it's going to have to go out piece by piece. The family friend mentioned that's how they got it down there in the first place. They're open to offers and didn't give me a price when I asked. What do I even start at?

-Brad

 

[markba633csi]

Does it have any accessories like chucks or steady rests, stuff like that? Or is it a stripper? That will obviously affect the price
How much can you spend? I would say 1500-1700$ would be fair if it has a steady rest and one good chuck, but they might go lower
Sheldons are a cut above South Bends and probably equal to a Logan or better IMO

 

[G-ManBart]

Sheldons are nice lathes...I've had two M series in the recent past. The lathe you're talking about has the Worthington drive, which is a variable speed system with multiple belts, sheaves, etc. They're a nice step up from the standard drives, but I'd really want to see it under power to make sure it's working before I handed over money. On top of that, accessories and parts for Sheldon lathes are much harder to find than some other brands. For example, I looked for about three years checking eBay every night and watching the usual machinery parts places like Lost Creek hoping to find a follow rest...finally had to make one. Similarly, the collet adapter is non-standard and isn't readily available. You really need to know what is/isn't there and know it runs, all the speeds and feeds are good, etc. Something simple broken or missing and you can wind up with a money pit very easily....like a set of spindle bearings that will be $1,500 if you're lucky. I'd be more worried about checking the condition first, then think about getting it out of the basement. There's a Sheldon Yahoo! group page with a lot of info, so that's helpful.

I sold my last Sheldon not long ago and it had a lot of tooling....telescoping taper attachment, 3-jaw chuck, 4-jaw chuck, collet adapter, collet closer, collet stand, QCTP, live center, dead center, drill chuck, micrometer carriage stop, threading dial, a set of tool holders, some carbide tools, a set of boring bars, lantern tool post, face plate, dog drive plate, spindle lock...and probably more I'm forgetting. It was extremely clean for a nearly 70 year old lathe and it went for $3,250.

 

[Braf1895]

Thanks for the replies! I'll have a better idea on what tooling is coming with it when I go back over this week. I'll fire it up and check for run out on the spindle. It definitely has the collet attachment (the lever looking one on the back), what looks like a 4 jaw chuck, QCTP, tools holders, and threading dial.

 

[projectnut]

I purchased a MW-56P a few years ago it had all the accessories G-ManBart described except the taper attachment. It did come with 4 chucks, however. In this case the machine was freshly rebuilt including grinding the ways and replacing the headstock bearings. The previous owner gave me all the paperwork for the rebuild so there's no doubt what it cost.

When I got it home, I disassembled it piece by piece and hauled it to my basement shop. I had to hire a moving company to move the pedestal base with the motor and Worthington drive. That unit alone was over 800 lbs. I didn't have anything big enough to carry it down the stairs, and no one in the area did either. The only alternative was to purchase a stair climber dolly tor $1,700.00.

Once in the shop it took me close to a month to reassemble everything. I paid $2,500.00 for the machine. It's a great machine and I'm glad I purchased it. As for parts availability I believe there was a thread a short time ago about someone finding one in a barn. They showed pictures, but it was a bit rough to take on as a project.

Here are a few pictures of my machine. This machine has the Worthington drive. Note the operator console. The top row of buttons from left to right are Reverse, Forward, Stop. The lower row left to right Slow, Fast. The spindle speed is controlled by the Worthington drive which is similar to a Reeves drive. In this case the sheaves are opened and closed by an electric gearmotor. The machine you're looking at does not have the controls for this drive. If it is present it isn't working. When doing the inspection look in the motor cabinet you should see something like the last pictures.

 

[bl00]

It looks like a nice lathe. Here's a few things to think about. When you go look at it check the integrity of the stairs to see if they'll need bracing to carry you, the lathe bed and a dolly at the same time. Is there a window in the basement and would that be an easier egress? Do you have any equipment already? Any friends to help?

I would discount the price by $1000 from whatever it would be worth if it wasn't in the basement. I've moved many machines and taking a lathe out a basement is enough of a hassle that the price would have to be very good to get me to do it.

 

[G-ManBart]

I purchased a MW-56P a few years ago it had all the accessories G-ManBart described except the taper attachment. It did come with 4 chucks, however. In this case the machine was freshly rebuilt including grinding the ways and replacing the headstock bearings. The previous owner gave me all the paperwork for the rebuild so there's no doubt what it cost.

When I got it home, I disassembled it piece by piece and hauled it to my basement shop. I had to hire a moving company to move the pedestal base with the motor and Worthington drive. That unit alone was over 800 lbs. I didn't have anything big enough to carry it down the stairs, and no one in the area did either. The only alternative was to purchase a stair climber dolly tor $1,700.00.

Once in the shop it took me close to a month to reassemble everything. I paid $2,500.00 for the machine. It's a great machine and I'm glad I purchased it. As for parts availability I believe there was a thread a short time ago about someone finding one in a barn. They showed pictures, but it was a bit rough to take on as a project.

Here are a few pictures of my machine. This machine has the Worthington drive. Note the operator console. The top row of buttons from left to right are Reverse, Forward, Stop. The lower row left to right Slow, Fast. The spindle speed is controlled by the Worthington drive which is similar to a Reeves drive. In this case the sheaves are opened and closed by an electric gearmotor. The machine you're looking at does not have the controls for this drive. If it is present it isn't working. When doing the inspection look in the motor cabinet you should see something like the last pictures.

It's not obvious, but this version has a handle down near the apron for fast/slow...not sure how it works, but I've seen one before. You can just see the handle peeking up at the bottom of the pic the OP posted.

Not picking on the OP, but in another part of my hobby life I have to give people really direct instructions on how to provide pictures so I can help them. If I say "show me a profile view" about half the time it'll be at an angle with only some of the side showing. Now I say "show me a profile view directly from the side showing the entire thing from font to back" or something along those lines. It's one of those things where you and I know what we need to see, but often the person asking the question doesn't know what's important or not.

The pic I found also confirmed what I was thinking about the threading dial...almost certainly from another brand and made to work (probably not a big deal, but worth noting). The speedometer on this model appears identical to the one on the Sheldon No. 0 horizontal mill I just brought home...also has a Worthington drive.

Here's a pic I found of this version:

 

[Braf1895]

It's not obvious, but this version has a handle down near the apron for fast/slow...not sure how it works, but I've seen one before. You can just see the handle peeking up at the bottom of the pic the OP posted.

Not picking on the OP, but in another part of my hobby life I have to give people really direct instructions on how to provide pictures so I can help them. If I say "show me a profile view" about half the time it'll be at an angle with only some of the side showing. Now I say "show me a profile view directly from the side showing the entire thing from font to back" or something along those lines. It's one of those things where you and I know what we need to see, but often the person asking the question doesn't know what's important or not.

The pic I found also confirmed what I was thinking about the threading dial...almost certainly from another brand and made to work (probably not a big deal, but worth noting). The speedometer on this model appears identical to the one on the Sheldon No. 0 horizontal mill I just brought home...also has a Worthington drive.

Here's a pic I found of this version:

View attachment 481894

None taken! I did notice the speed adjust lever on the lathe denoting the mechanical speed control, just didn't get the best picture to show it. I did not catch that the threading dial is different, so big thanks on that!

Let me give a touch more info on how this whole deal came about (was a bit nervous before hand).
This lathe belonged to my longtime girlfriend's grandfather. I knew him before hand a fair bit, and am good friends with the family. After he passed, the family didn't know what they were going to do with it. Anyways, to make a long story short, I relayed the info from here and was told "if you can get it out, it's yours." They were originally going to have the auctioneers handle it, but ended up wanting it to stay in the family.

Thank you all for the help here! Expect a post elsewhere once I get her back to my place and running.

 

[G-ManBart]

None taken! I did notice the speed adjust lever on the lathe denoting the mechanical speed control, just didn't get the best picture to show it. I did not catch that the threading dial is different, so big thanks on that!

Let me give a touch more info on how this whole deal came about (was a bit nervous before hand).
This lathe belonged to my longtime girlfriend's grandfather. I knew him before hand a fair bit, and am good friends with the family. After he passed, the family didn't know what they were going to do with it. Anyways, to make a long story short, I relayed the info from here and was told "if you can get it out, it's yours." They were originally going to have the auctioneers handle it, but ended up wanting it to stay in the family.

Thank you all for the help here! Expect a post elsewhere once I get her back to my place and running.

Looking forward to it! I'd be very interested to see how that drive adjustment system works. Some of the Worthington drives are manual (like on my mill) and some have the electric motor. I have only seen manual/catalog pages from Sheldon showing the electric version on lathes.

I think it'll be a big job to get it out of the basement, but it's doable if you can take your time. Some stuff is obvious, like removing any chucks and the tailstock. You could also look at removing the collet closer assembly which is a pretty good sized hunk of metal.

Other things will take more thought. I'd split the apron and saddle as they're pretty heavy when combined and dropping the assembly will almost certainly ruin one or the other. Then I'd separate the bed and headstock from the cabinet and put those on some sort of wooden sled that could be pulled/pushed up the stairs rather than trying to carry it or use a hand truck/etc. I wouldn't want to separate the headstock from the bed if possible. As mentioned, the cabinet will be heavy. You could probably also put that on a wooden sled and use a fence puller or come-along to get it up the steps if there's a way to anchor it as the top.

My last Sheldon was in a basement and they managed to get it up the stairs in one piece....I didn't see it, but the owner said it was brutal!

 

[projectnut]

When I took mine to the basement I went so far as to remove the headstock from the machine. Then I removed the quick change gear box. The bed was removed from the cabinet and the chip pan was removed to make it easier to move the end cabinets

Be sure to take dozens of pictures as you disassemble it. Things may look obvious as you’re taking them apart. They might not be so obvious a month or so later when you start putting it back together.


I did miss the T handle for the Worthington drive. There are several parts manuals for these machines on the Vintage Machinery website. Be sure to right down your serial number when looking. The manuals state they apply to machines before and after certain serial numbers.

As side note it cost $600.00 to have the column of the Bridgeport (1000 lbs.) and the motor cabinet of the Sheldon (800 lbs.) moved to the basement. It took 4 guys with an 1800 lb. Capable Stair climber dolly