Y is stiff when the table is far off center on X

Tyrell Knifeworks

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I’ve had my PM25 for a few years. I love the machine and have a PM lathe on the way too.

The issue I’m having is that when the table is far off center on the X in either direction and the X is locked, the Y is very stiff and hard to move. I’ve tried to adjust the gibs but that doesn’t seem to change anything. Is this just a fact of life? Any way to address this?
 
you are probably way off balance, so the weight of the table is causing a tilt, acting like the gibs are tightened. Not surprising.I would expect that if you tightened the gibs up, the effect would be less, since the table would have a harder time lifting the short side and wedging much. Contrary to what you would think... But that's only a guess. I think loosening the Y gibs would make it worse, as the wedging would be worse. Again a hunch.

edit: and YOU MUST HAVE WAY OIL in there, if not it gets worse.
 
Could be lack of way oil. Otherwise, I would suggest removing the gibs, checking they are flat, stone off any burrs, reinstall and adjust.
 
There’s lots of oil, I know that. I tried tightening the X gib, because my thinking was that it’s the x that would cause the table to hang up when it’s off center but that didn’t seem to do much. Tightening the Y didn’t help either. Maybe I’ll remove them and check.
 
There’s lots of oil, I know that. I tried tightening the X gib, because my thinking was that it’s the x that would cause the table to hang up when it’s off center but that didn’t seem to do much. Tightening the Y didn’t help either. Maybe I’ll remove them and check.
the X gib would have no effect on the Y.. it's the Y gib that would need to be tightened to prevent tilting. The tilting is creating a tighter gib.. the looser the big, the more leverage and therefore more power to tighten the gib..
 
The weight of the overhanging table produces leverage which lifts the table over the saddle, lifting the Y-axis nut with it, putting the screw in a bind. Loose gibs will make it worse, but to some degree it is inevitable regardless. Physics. If you use it a lot with the table in that position the nut will wear in, making it less noticeable.

At least that's my theory.
 
I’ve tried everything with adjusting the gibs. It won’t get any better it seems. This is very peculiar as it’s only 3 years old and now milling something that’s 18” long is quite difficult when using the y with the x locked.
 
I’ve tried everything with adjusting the gibs. It won’t get any better it seems. This is very peculiar as it’s only 3 years old and now milling something that’s 18” long is quite difficult when using the y with the x locked.
From reading threads with posts by PM, I'd say their customer service and tech support are first rate. Give them a call and discuss your problem with their tech support. Sounds to me like that's the one thing you have not tried.
 
I’ve tried everything with adjusting the gibs. It won’t get any better it seems. This is very peculiar as it’s only 3 years old and now milling something that’s 18” long is quite difficult when using the y with the x locked.
You did not say what was on the table. Also, in your description, it is implied that if the X- is NOT locked that the y-axis does not bind!?

1) Uneven weight on the table can cause excessive tilt. A large vise? Try counter balancing any uneven weight along the X-axis. I have a lead brick I sometimes place on the long x-table of my PM940M to counter balance a vice that I sometimes locate at one end. This tends to yield a symmetry for the y-axis saddle pressures, but really works best when I am working near the center of the table. My PM vise weight in at 90+ #s and the mill table is pretty long and heavy duty. The worst case situation might be that you are working on one end and have a vice on the extended end.

2) Even without this an over tighten gib will result in binding. Also, unfortunately some ways are not perfectly parallel, this will result in a stiff response at the narrow end when the gib has been optimized at the wide end. This stiffness can drastically increase backlash.

3) If Y-axis lead screw is fastened down (bearings) at both ends then results suggested by @MrWhoopee can result. Even then the stiffness should differ at the center vs ends of the y-axis positions. My machine had bearings at both ends as there was a CNC stepper motor at the back and a crank at the front. However, the rear bearing and stepper motor was not centered properly for the y-axis way travel. I removed the front bearing and the lead screw was no longer bent as it position changed at the front. It may have helped a little with the stiffness at the end position. It was hard to tell.

3) Assuming there is no or little binding when the x-axis locks are not tighten it could be that tightening them actually twists the x-table resulting in the change in the y-saddle that causes binding. Again, analogous but different, to the comment made by @MrWhoopee . It is common that the locks are simply screws pushing in on the back side of the gib at two points. This can actually bend the gib and distort it considerably. It is hard to fix this other than to lock the position via some other means. Perhaps there is something wrong with the x-axis gib or its fit and these locks are causing strange stresses/strains in the Y saddle via the fit to the X ways.

Just some thoughts.... Good luck.
 
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