Atlas Clausing 4804 Spindle Won't Lock

[stoatmax]

Hi all,

I very recently picked up an old 4804 and have begun the process of getting it back into running condition. First order of business seems to be to replace the spindle bearings, as they are without a doubt roached. After that, it's mostly a lot of cleanup, oiling, and other setup to get it dialed in.

I noticed the spindle locking issue when trying to remove the chuck. I tried the method of engaging the back gears with the lock pin engaged. However, I believe the key for the large spindle gear must have sheared, as the spindle and chuck rotate (albeit with resistance) when the large spindle gear and belt pulleys are locked by the back gears.

Given that the pulley assembly and spindle are no longer fixed to one another, I'm having trouble thinking of a good way to lock the spindle to remove the chuck without high potential for damaging something. Any ideas?

 

[macardoso]

Perhaps you can make/buy an expanding mandrel to go in the back of the spindle and get a wrench on it?

 

[Nogoingback]

I've never tried this, but I know it's been suggested before:
Get a piece of hex stock or a large bolt and chuck it in the lathe. Disengage the back gears so that the
chuck can spin freely and use an impact wrench on the bolt to pop it loose. (Assuming you have air
and a wrench of course.). Do not attempt this with the spindle locked in back gear.

 

[stoatmax]

Perhaps you can make/buy an expanding mandrel to go in the back of the spindle and get a wrench on it?

Not a bad idea.

I've never tried this, but I know it's been suggested before:
Get a piece of hex stock or a large bolt and chuck it in the lathe. Disengage the back gears so that the
chuck can spin freely and use an impact wrench on the bolt to pop it loose. (Assuming you have air
and a wrench of course.). Do not attempt this with the spindle locked in back gear.

No air, but a buddy has a fat electric impact wrench. I'll see about giving that a try.

While I'm here, I'm also curious as to how best to back off this rear spindle gear enough in order to get a gear puller on it. I'm afraid the "tap gear with block of wood and a hammer" tip from the manual isn't quite clear. See attached pic. It appears the previous owner may have faced these problems before, given the various holes in the sleeve of the rear spindle gear.

 

[Nogoingback]

No idea how your lathe comes apart, but we have a bunch of Atlas owners here so someone should have an answer for
you. In the future, you might consider posting in the sub forum for ATLAS, CRAFTSMAN, DUNLAP & AA.

 

[wa5cab]

The only connection between an Atlas-Clausing 4800 Series machine and Atlas is the name on the name plate. Atlas bought Clausing circa 1949 and shortly afterwards changed the Model 100 (specifically the Mk 3) to 4800 Series. With the last or last two digits meaning something specific, like the type of stand or cabinet. The name change didn't go over well with the Clausing customers and although all of the model number changes stayed, the company name change, or at least what appeared on the machine nameplates, didn't. So although many if not most would be willing, as a group the Atlas owners are likely to only be familiar with Atlas machines. So stay where you are.

If you will look in Downloads in the Clausing... folder under Lathes, you will find a manual on the 4800 Series lathe. There is a Woodruff key shown in the exploded view drawings as bubble # 78. According to the numerical parts list 'way in the back of the manual it says that this is a #404 Woodruff Key. It is not mentioned in the spindle removal instructions and a set screw in the bull gear is neither mentioned nor shown in the exploded view headstock drawings. But it should be there. The tapered roller spindle bearings do not appear to have any dust caps like the similar 12" Atlas machines. But it would appear that the spindle can be removed from the headstock without removing the key.

However, to remove the stuck chuck, you might try dropping the banjo (AKA Change Gear Bracket) out of the way and putting a non-metallic strap wrench around the 32 tooth spindle gear as a means of locking the spindle. Then once the chuck is removed, follow the spindle removal instructions in order to determine what the deal is with key # 78 that should lock the bull gear to the spindle.

 

[stoatmax]

The only connection between an Atlas-Clausing 4800 Series machine and Atlas is the name on the name plate. Atlas bought Clausing circa 1949 and shortly afterwards changed the Model 100 (specifically the Mk 3) to 4800 Series. With the last or last two digits meaning something specific, like the type of stand or cabinet. The name change didn't go over well with the Clausing customers and although all of the model number changes stayed, the company name change, or at least what appeared on the machine nameplates, didn't. So although many if not most would be willing, as a group the Atlas owners are likely to only be familiar with Atlas machines. So stay where you are.

If you will look in Downloads in the Clausing... folder under Lathes, you will find a manual on the 4800 Series lathe. There is a Woodruff key shown in the exploded view drawings as bubble # 78. According to the numerical parts list 'way in the back of the manual it says that this is a #404 Woodruff Key. It is not mentioned in the spindle removal instructions and a set screw in the bull gear is neither mentioned nor shown in the exploded view headstock drawings. But it should be there. The tapered roller spindle bearings do not appear to have any dust caps like the similar 12" Atlas machines. But it would appear that the spindle can be removed from the headstock without removing the key.

However, to remove the stuck chuck, you might try dropping the banjo (AKA Change Gear Bracket) out of the way and putting a non-metallic strap wrench around the 32 tooth spindle gear as a means of locking the spindle. Then once the chuck is removed, follow the spindle removal instructions in order to determine what the deal is with key # 78 that should lock the bull gear to the spindle.

I hadn't thought of a strap wrench around the 32 tooth gear! That's a great idea.

Now, as far as that 32 tooth gear, if you look at the picture I posted, mine is a bit different than in the drawings, with a cylinder protruding from the back of it. Not sure if that makes any difference as far as removal goes, but I'm still puzzled as to how to back it off sufficiently to get a gear puller in there.

 

[wa5cab]

First, the piece of pipe sticking out from the left end of the spindle looks like someones attempt at a spider. Most likely it is internally threaded on the right end and screwed onto the spindle in place of the collar that is normally in the position. So step one of an attempt to remove the spindle from the headstock would be to unscrew the spider. Before doing that, rotate the spindle and look for a set screw in the spider. The collar that it replaced had one. And the collar to the right of the 32T gear is also threaded according to the spindle removal instructions. After removing the spider, if the 32T gear doesn't just slip off, I would start by sharpening a putty knife and driving it in between the gear and the collar. The instructions to remove the 32T gear with a wooden block make no sense.

 

[wa5cab]

BTW, your photo shows that the bull gear (large gear towards the right end of the spindle) is missing a tooth.

 

[stoatmax]

Update: The strap wrench method proved successful in removing the chuck.

A question - when the spindle is removed, does it come out towards the front (chuck end) or the rear?

First, the piece of pipe sticking out from the left end of the spindle looks like someones attempt at a spider. Most likely it is internally threaded on the right end and screwed onto the spindle in place of the collar that is normally in the position. So step one of an attempt to remove the spindle from the headstock would be to unscrew the spider. Before doing that, rotate the spindle and look for a set screw in the spider. The collar that it replaced had one. And the collar to the right of the 32T gear is also threaded according to the spindle removal instructions. After removing the spider, if the 32T gear doesn't just slip off, I would start by sharpening a putty knife and driving it in between the gear and the collar. The instructions to remove the 32T gear with a wooden block make no sense.

A spider makes sense. It could be threaded - there is no visible clearance between where the threads end and the gear begins. There is however about 1/8" or so of clearance between the gear and that threaded collar, maybe less. It occurs to me that a small gear separator may be able to get enough purchase to back off the back gear, assuming it isn't threaded on as well.
Re: set screw, there is a hole where one appears to have been. The previous owner seems to have tried to loosen the spider/gear assembly using a punch and hammer in the hole. Yikes.

BTW, your photo shows that the bull gear (large gear towards the right end of the spindle) is missing a tooth.

Yes, that's another problem. Some have told me it's kosher to run it with a single missing tooth. My gut tells me it'd be best to build up a weld there and machine or grind a new tooth. That, or start with a new gear blank, but I imagine the cost of machining adding up quite quickly on that.