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Brass Jet Vs Aluminum Tool?
- Thread starter great white
- Start date
A piece of 1/4 aluminum turned to 6mm with a square tang milled on the end (to fit width and depth of the slot) should work. A piece of 1/8 rod for a handle or a hex of you want to get fancy will give you plenty of torque. I made one like that tuning a bank of Mikunis, worked like a charm. You're not tourqing heads, after all.
Caught somewhere in time.
Caught somewhere in time.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2015
- Messages
- 2,558
So, this is going a bit sideways. Let's see if I can't get it back on track by giving it some perspective:
This is the carb bank split and the location of the jet access/drain screw:
This is how much clearance there is to work with to access the jet through the drain screw:
This is the carb bank assembled:
This is the bank installed int eh bike:
This is how much access you have to the jet holes from the sides:
The carbs can't be removed from the bike without dropping the engine in the frame. It's because it's a VMax engine in a Venture frame. IOW: the VMax frame is designed with extra frame clearance to remove the carbs. The difference is the VBoost manifolds you can see under the carbs. It makes the whole assembly approx1-1.5" taller.
Because it's a VMax engine and Venture Carbs (same carbs, different jetting because of port, valve and cam sizes), the jetting is right out the window and I have to take a first guess at the jetting size and frig around up and down from there until I get it right.
Anyone who's jetted a bike knows it can be a repetitive/frustrating process of jets in/jets out.
So "this tool on that bike" or "I've always used XX on YY carbs" isn't helpful. This is a V4 with everything buried down inside the V. I need to make a special/specific tool to get to the jets.
Lack of access is also why I've removed the JIS float bowl screws and replaced them with Allen head screws. I can reach in between the banks and pull the bowl with only needing to remove the airbox. I'm also making a low clearance ratcheting 4 mm Allen wrench tool with a pivot handle to make pulling those bowls a bit easier.
These are the reasons why I need to make a special tool to remove my jets and a "standard" screwdriver won't work.
Hence, my original question (and what the thread is about rather than where it has gone) of which is "harder": Aluminum or brass.
Thank you. That is helpful and probably pretty close to what I will need to build. Probably end up with a universal joint in it somewhere to get the proper angle on the jet.
This is the carb bank split and the location of the jet access/drain screw:
This is how much clearance there is to work with to access the jet through the drain screw:
This is the carb bank assembled:
This is the bank installed int eh bike:
This is how much access you have to the jet holes from the sides:
The carbs can't be removed from the bike without dropping the engine in the frame. It's because it's a VMax engine in a Venture frame. IOW: the VMax frame is designed with extra frame clearance to remove the carbs. The difference is the VBoost manifolds you can see under the carbs. It makes the whole assembly approx1-1.5" taller.
Because it's a VMax engine and Venture Carbs (same carbs, different jetting because of port, valve and cam sizes), the jetting is right out the window and I have to take a first guess at the jetting size and frig around up and down from there until I get it right.
Anyone who's jetted a bike knows it can be a repetitive/frustrating process of jets in/jets out.
So "this tool on that bike" or "I've always used XX on YY carbs" isn't helpful. This is a V4 with everything buried down inside the V. I need to make a special/specific tool to get to the jets.
Lack of access is also why I've removed the JIS float bowl screws and replaced them with Allen head screws. I can reach in between the banks and pull the bowl with only needing to remove the airbox. I'm also making a low clearance ratcheting 4 mm Allen wrench tool with a pivot handle to make pulling those bowls a bit easier.
These are the reasons why I need to make a special tool to remove my jets and a "standard" screwdriver won't work.
Hence, my original question (and what the thread is about rather than where it has gone) of which is "harder": Aluminum or brass.
Thank you. That is helpful and probably pretty close to what I will need to build. Probably end up with a universal joint in it somewhere to get the proper angle on the jet.
Last edited:
I'm a watchmaker/clockmaker in my off hours, and put myself through college in the late 70s working as a mechanic, working on vehicles that are now considered either vintage or antique. One thing we learn as watchmakers is that tools are made to be modified. (I learned it as a mechanic, too, but watchmakers and clockmakers modify all sorts of things.) Get an Allen wrench and grind (or file) the tip. Get it close with parallel sides, check the fit, and grind some more if it doesn't quite fit. If you go too far, grind that tip off and start again. You want it so it fits without snagging, but with minimal slop. If you need a deep reach, grind the long end and use pliers to torque the short end, just be double-danged sure to control the angles. If the short end is too short, but the long end is too long, then shorten the long end to the right length. Tools can be really cheap, and the quality is almost always good enough (except for when you really want to horse on something). Harbor Freight (or its equivalent up there) is your friend. Especially screwdrivers, pliers, and wrenches - if you need something specialized, buy a cheap one and modify it.
To answer your question, brass will withstand the kinds of stresses you're talking about far better than aluminum, unless you get some sort of exotic aluminum alloy. Your absolute-best bet would be beryllium-copper (BeCu) bronze if you want to go that route. Second best would be red brass. Your local metals shop should have one or the other if not both. As I said, though, a task-modified Allen wrench will do the trick nicely.
Glen
To answer your question, brass will withstand the kinds of stresses you're talking about far better than aluminum, unless you get some sort of exotic aluminum alloy. Your absolute-best bet would be beryllium-copper (BeCu) bronze if you want to go that route. Second best would be red brass. Your local metals shop should have one or the other if not both. As I said, though, a task-modified Allen wrench will do the trick nicely.
Glen
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2013
- Messages
- 12
From the photos, am I right that the jets face the cylinder walls and the plugs unscrew at roughly 9o degrees to the cylinder walls? (you know what you're looking at, I'm guessing)
If so, maybe this will help:
1. Make a thin offset screwdriver by milling the blades into the side of a piece of 5/16" square bar. A vertical blade on one end and a horizontal one on the other, then mill out the metal in between. Use whichever end of the driver will engage the slot with room to turn. Easy for you to make with a milling slide. Think it should be from mild steel though - the shear forces on a 1mm or 1.5mm thick blade will need the strength of steel. Make the blades as wide as the core diameter of the plughole and they'll self-centralise on the jet.
2. General Tools make an 'Ratchet Offset screwdriver with 2 slotted blades', model# 807 that may work if you grind one of the blades to size. A cutting disc in a Dremel will do it (I agree with Glen about modifying tools). Can grind the blade tip parallel (or even undercut it a little so it cams into the slot, not out of it). The 807 has very low height to get you into that tight space.
3. Teng Tools make a beautiful, thin, 60 point ratchet for those 1/4" hex bits for multi-bit screwdrivers. It's model# 1400B. Its only 9.5mm thick and the hex bits are a tight sliding fit in the socket of the ratchet. Theres a thumb wheel to quickly back out the jet too. You'd need to cut/grind the hex-bit shorter, with blade size to match the jet, with the Dremel, or anneal it and use a saw/file.
Google will show you a picture of both of these but:
The General Tools 807 is pressed metal with quite a coarse ratchet. Though they've been around for 50 yrs or more, I've never bought one.
The Teng Tools 1400B is real quality and I'd not do without mine. Its taller than the General, but if it still fits, thats what I'd get.
Rgds - jv
If so, maybe this will help:
1. Make a thin offset screwdriver by milling the blades into the side of a piece of 5/16" square bar. A vertical blade on one end and a horizontal one on the other, then mill out the metal in between. Use whichever end of the driver will engage the slot with room to turn. Easy for you to make with a milling slide. Think it should be from mild steel though - the shear forces on a 1mm or 1.5mm thick blade will need the strength of steel. Make the blades as wide as the core diameter of the plughole and they'll self-centralise on the jet.
2. General Tools make an 'Ratchet Offset screwdriver with 2 slotted blades', model# 807 that may work if you grind one of the blades to size. A cutting disc in a Dremel will do it (I agree with Glen about modifying tools). Can grind the blade tip parallel (or even undercut it a little so it cams into the slot, not out of it). The 807 has very low height to get you into that tight space.
3. Teng Tools make a beautiful, thin, 60 point ratchet for those 1/4" hex bits for multi-bit screwdrivers. It's model# 1400B. Its only 9.5mm thick and the hex bits are a tight sliding fit in the socket of the ratchet. Theres a thumb wheel to quickly back out the jet too. You'd need to cut/grind the hex-bit shorter, with blade size to match the jet, with the Dremel, or anneal it and use a saw/file.
Google will show you a picture of both of these but:
The General Tools 807 is pressed metal with quite a coarse ratchet. Though they've been around for 50 yrs or more, I've never bought one.
The Teng Tools 1400B is real quality and I'd not do without mine. Its taller than the General, but if it still fits, thats what I'd get.
Rgds - jv