Hardinge TM & UM questions, weight & diffs?

J

Jim_cellarshop

Active User
Registered
Joined
Apr 26, 2011
Messages
75
Hi, I am looking for information on the small mills that I might buy for my basement (walk out but steep muddy hill access). I saw a pic of a Hardinge TM or UM, what is the difference? What does the heaviest part, disassembled, weigh? Pros / Cons? I have seen pics w/ the non-quill head Hardinge vert adapter & also a bridgeport M head, pros/cons? Quite a bit of what I want to do could be done in horiz mode (these machines look like they would be very riddged for horiz milling). Some work I want to do I will need a rotary table & I want to have the option of a vert head if I need it. My needs: Steel & stainless mostly, max work size 6"cubed, 4" vise (5-6" better), 6" rotary table, heaviest piece 450lbs, $1500 (I could go more but it cuts into tooling). Search list so far: Clausing 85x0 ($), Burke#4, Van Norman 1/2 (maybe a VN 12 but wgt? & never saw one), Clausing horiz (heavy?), Deckel ($$), RF45 ($), X3 (poss repair costs). Once I get something I will be spending money for tooling & eventually a DRO, so I want something that will cover my needs for a long time. The horiz seem to be fairly well built, lighter & less money than many of the vertical mills. Thanks for all your help!!!!!!!!! Jim.
 
Jim,

I don't know about the Hardinge TM/UM except that I have heard great things about them for hobbyists use, especially when a Bridgeport "M' head is attached. They fetch a premium price because of their attractiveness to hobbyists- about $1500-2000.

I own a Burke #4 and Van Norman #12 in a small basement, so I can comment on those.
Mine are not currently operational, but Jim B. has a Burke #4 and uses it quite a bit.

Burke #4 is a good, sturdy, small machine- mine is on the original machine base.
The machine is old, dates back to 1946. The base is tapered and allows you to store stuff inside and has a chip tray on top. I used two boards to make two shelves inside to store tooling and stuff.
It has power table feed and feed changes via belts and a Master gearhead motor.
If you buy one, try to get the vertical head, which is rare and fetches a lot of money alone.
Also, get arbors, as many as possible- they are also rare and go for bucks.
The machine spindle takes BS9 taper tooling, and the vertical head takes 3c. The BS9 collets are sold by Tools4cheap.net. The mill weights about 650 pounds with the motor. It can be separated from the base, and transported in pieces quite easily in sections 200 pounds or less. Mine has Zambus/Carrymaster wheels on the base to roll it around on. You can get one for $500-$750, maybe a bit more with the vertical head. The MAJOR negative- it's table has ONLY ONE T-Slot!! Otherwise, a good home shop machine. There are pictures of it on the site.

The Van Norman #12 is a big, heavy machine- 1800 pounds of old iron. There is a thread of me moving it down the steps to my basement. This wasn't an easy process, certainly not like moving the Burke #4. Mine dates to 1946. It's more of an industrial machine. It has power table and spindle feed. The cutter head is universal, insofar as it tilts to allow you to use it as a vertical and horizontal cutter. The MAJOR negative- no quill!! A Bridgeport M head can certainly be adapted to it for vertical operation with a quill. It takes 5v (Van Norman 5c) collets. Tools4cheap.net also has them. The arbors are rare and fetch big bucks. Tools4cheap makes them also I believe. The column and base separate for moving. Together they weigh 800 pounds and are the heaviest parts of the mill. The base is about 450 pounds and the column about 350 pounds. I moved it alone, but most normal guys get help. Hire a towtruck, and have them use the crane to move it and drop it into your basement. These mills can be had for as little as $500, depending on condition and seller motivation. There are lots of photos of them on the site.


Hope this helps.


Nelson
 
THanks for info Nelson. Jim B. had a lot of good info on the Burke #4 & some great pictures in a recent reply (Thread) to me. I have a #4 as a possible mill because of his good info. I like the idea of the add on multislot table, when needed. I could also make a fixture plate. Most of the time I will just need a vise or rotary table, 75% of what I want to do is less than 4x4x2". I may need to stand the vise or R-table up to use an end mill in the horiz spindle. I am not even 100% sure if I would even need a vert head. I was looking at slightly larger horiz mills (usually cheaper that verts) to get just a little more movements, the Clausing horiz mill looks pretty heavy. Which is why I was asking about the Hardinge. Any other suggestions? Thanks!! Jim
 
The TM and UM are the same machine except that the UM has a table that swivals a few degrees. Total weight is 870 lbs. Table has 3 slots and is 25" lg and 6 1/6" wide. There are 32 speed selections from 110 to 1850 rpm in clockwise & counterclockwise rotation. The table feeds in both directions from 1/8" to 13" per min. Longitudnal feed is 14", transverse is 5 1/2" and vertical is 13 1/4". Maximum distance from the table to the center of the spindle is 12" so a rotary table on it's side has plenty of room. The part I like most is the spindle takes 5C collets which are cheep and readily available. My mill came with a 1" arbor and I made additional arbors for 7/8" and 1 1/4". The 3" feed dials, graduated in thousandths is easily readable. I didn't separate the base from the mill head but it picked up easily with a cherry picker. I paid $700 for mine in clean running condition with one arbor, overarm and arbor support, drawbar and a set of 8 Hardinge collets which I thought was reasonable.
Good luck with your hunt.
 
Thanks for the info. The TM or UM looks like it would be a good match for what I want. So this goes on my search list. I will have to see what comes up for sale fairly local. I hope I can find something this winter :) Thanks, Jim
 
I posted a couple of photos of my TM in my album. I'll add pics of the steps in machining additional arbors if anyone would like to see them.
 
I would love to see the process in machining the arbors!

Please post it if you can. It will likely be added to the articles section in the front.


Nelson
 
I wasn't able to put them in proper order but the the photos I took of machining the TM/UM arbors are now posted, I think. Is there a way to put them in sequential order?.
 
A couple ways....you can delete what's there then drag the photos around and hit "In Line", or just drag them around the screen during the edit.

It's pretty easy.


Nelson
 
Atwatterkent, thanks a lot for the pics of the TM in action. Very nice. It looks like it would be very versitile. A friend bought a mill from a local company that was bought out & is not keeping the machine shop that was in the building & not used for 10+ years. He said they have a TM. When I called they did not think so but were not sure, they have several old mills & lathes. I am trying to get off to go look at them on Thurs. I will post further info after I get a chance to see what they have. Is a Hardinge 5C different than a std 5C??
Thanks guys! (sorry for spelling, con't find checker)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top