How cheap should one get with carbide tool holders ?

I bought a cheap set of dcmt holders/carbide. I have to say, the insert that it came with were pretty damn good. I was surprised.
The holders were not as good. The carbide failed to sit flat on the holder, and like you the screw was not lined up. It's ok for the screw to be pulling to the back of the holder, but the problem was the pocket was not fully formed, so the carbide was sticking up. A little work with a needle file and a stone and the problems went away. I am happy with them. What I like about the DCMT was the ability to get in close. I have a single CNMG and WNMG holder. I have no problem on my small lathe using the negative rake. I know that goes against the grain, but I turn fast, and take a cut that gets me where I want to go. It doesn't work in all situations.. It's part of the game.
 
maxime.levesque said:
If you ever run the experiment of changing only 1 variable (putting a high quality insert on your cheap tool holder), it will be valuable information, and I hope you will publish the info on this site !
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The inserts are what important not the holders. I run hobbyist grade holders, an proper pro grade inserts. for my machine and the depths of cuts i take, that means finishing inserts.
 
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I love old school quality tools , but i see the need to economize where it really doesn’t matter.
I beat the snot out of tools while roughing, so I tend to have lower threshold for using expensive tools for the purpose.
Conversely, a finishing tool doesn’t have the same threshold. I’ll pay the extra for quality inserts , but I usually buy older production tooling
 
I'm another who has bought nothing but the cheapest Chinese tooling. I have bought a LOT of inserted holders and have never had a problem with any of them. My guess is the OP just "got lucky". Rather than start a return, I would probably have just contacted the seller and see what they offered. I bought a batch of AXA tool holders with the slot incompletely cut. The seller gave me a full refund and didn't want them back.
 
I feel like I've tried it all. To show for it, I have a few standby imports (toolholder and insert) that do well and a bunch that don't. The irony is that at one time I thought those junk tools did fine - I just didn't know what to expect. That said, I suggest judiciously buying one or two brand name tool holders and appropriate inserts if only to set the appropriate expectations. In my case I found a few Shars toolholders and inserts that were completely up to snuff. Same with "Northward" (the Accusize premium brand). I've also spent countless dollars on useless garbage that chipped upon a hard stare.

If you're new, it's a doubly-double-edged sword: You can damage an excellent insert because you don't (yet) know how to handle inserts. Or you could just have a shoddy insert. It's probably impossible to tell the difference without experience.

Modern inserts are super friendly. Those who gave up on them 20 years ago wouldn't believe the toughness of a lot of inserts today. On the other hand, there is a surfeit of garbage inserts available, usually in kits of 5-20 tools (more is better, right?).

My advice, worth everything you paid for it, unless you were timing your reading of this post...: buy a couple premium toolholders and inserts to establish a baseline. Don't buy any "kits". The odd person may stumble on to a good one, but your chances of buying garbage are very high. The pro shops don't buy kits - those are strictly aimed at amateurs, and particularly amateurs that are drawn to having a bunch of tools, cheaply...

Read reviews and buy imports judiciously. There **are** deals to be had. I've had some variability from Shars, but I've never received something from them that was complete junk. Buying some random brand from Amazon is probably not as safe a bet.

Note the brand names. No brand should probably mean 'no buy'. Small brands like Accusize, Northward (same co.), etc might be worth exploring. Many years ago I did very well picking up "cheap imports" from a company no one had ever heard of - Bison. Just roll your dice carefully.

I have a large complement of Northward face mills. They had some pretty scathing reviews, so I bought mine one at a time, testing each one thoroughly before ordering the next. I now have five or six, and a lifetime supply of their (excellent) inserts.

In short, it's a minefield of uneven quality out there and a lot of people will tell you that "X" is great - because they've never actually seen great. This is why a baseline is so important. You might just think you're clumsy, or that inserts break every time they're not handled with kid gloves.

I realize that some of what I've said might be interpreted as disparaging some of the remarks made before this post, and that is not, at all, my intent. I will not dispute that there are good (even great) import tools to be had, and I certainly don't know what the next poster has, this is just my advice in terms of how to suss out the good ones.

Another note: all said and done, and not having the record keeping to swear one way or another, I may have been better off just buying Kennametal every single time. I've identified some cheaper vendors over the years, but at the cost of identifying a lot of garbage as well.

GsT
 
great white said:
Meh, I'm running cheapy ebay holders with index-able inserts. Works for me, but I only tinker in my garage on personal projects that probably aren't to the tolerances that some on the forum aspire to. I usually buy a couple packs of insets when I buy a new holder and they last me for years and years.

If I really want to, I can work down to within a thou or two. That's on my old atlas 10F too.

Cost is as important a factor as every other variable to me since I'm retired and every cent I spend on machining has to come out of my own pocket.
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I found some decent quality insert holders and inserts on BG for cheap and the worked out well for me.

I bought them and the accompanying toolpost (Which needed modifications out of the box) for our Neglected Harig lathe at work. I'm primarily the only one who uses this so getting the company to fund this was a no go, and I was out $100 total at most if it was all crap.

I'm more than happy with them 3 years later.

The insert holders are soft so they get chewed up by the setscrews, but other than that their fine. I do plan on fitting some flat nose set screws to elevate this, really my only gripe is they don't come with these from the factory.

What really surprised me was how good the inserts are. I bought an extra pack of each insert for $10 (Yes, $1 each) and I probably have enough to last me a decade going by their performance so far.

This experience was good enough that I bought the wedge style OXA tool post for my mini lathe and I'm also very happy with that and the tool holders are very nice for the price. I just picked up another spare for $12.
 
I have some name brand tool holders and quite a few imported holders from the usual suspects. I'd guess a total of maybe 40 different holders in the past couple of years and I've gotten exactly one bad one. The bad one was a Shars boring bar where the pocket for the insert wasn't machined fully so the hole in the insert can't line up with the screw hole and it won't let the insert sit flat. I didn't notice it until well past the return timeframe so I haven't done anything with it. I may call Shars and tell them I've never used it and just noticed it...but it's on me for not inspecting it right away.

I've had surprisingly good luck with the super cheap holders shipped direct from China (via eBay) and have even found some CCMT inserts that are shockingly good. The next time I order anything from them I'm getting a bunch of the inserts.

I don't expect the super cheap tool holder to last as long as a good one....I suspect the steel isn't as good, and the hardware is probably inferior, but at such a low price point you could buy a couple to have spares and be way ahead financially. Similarly, I expect the big name brand inserts might last longer, but when they cost ten times as much I can't ignore that for my hobby use.

These are the inserts I'm really impressed with...I recently got some like them in DCMT but haven't tried them yet.

www.ebay.com

HRC65 Nano blue CCMT060204/08 CCMT09T304/08 CCMT120404/08 ZM1135 carbide insert | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for HRC65 Nano blue CCMT060204/08 CCMT09T304/08 CCMT120404/08 ZM1135 carbide insert at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
 
G-ManBart said:
These are the inserts I'm really impressed with...I recently got some like them in DCMT but haven't tried them yet.

www.ebay.com

HRC65 Nano blue CCMT060204/08 CCMT09T304/08 CCMT120404/08 ZM1135 carbide insert | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for HRC65 Nano blue CCMT060204/08 CCMT09T304/08 CCMT120404/08 ZM1135 carbide insert at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
Click to expand...
I was astounded by the inserts that came with this milling cutter.
I milled a bunch of P20 and 4140HT and I'm still using the first corner on the first set of inserts.

 
G-ManBart said:
I have some name brand tool holders and quite a few imported holders from the usual suspects. I'd guess a total of maybe 40 different holders in the past couple of years and I've gotten exactly one bad one. The bad one was a Shars boring bar where the pocket for the insert wasn't machined fully so the hole in the insert can't line up with the screw hole and it won't let the insert sit flat. I didn't notice it until well past the return timeframe so I haven't done anything with it. I may call Shars and tell them I've never used it and just noticed it...but it's on me for not inspecting it right away.

I've had surprisingly good luck with the super cheap holders shipped direct from China (via eBay) and have even found some CCMT inserts that are shockingly good. The next time I order anything from them I'm getting a bunch of the inserts.

I don't expect the super cheap tool holder to last as long as a good one....I suspect the steel isn't as good, and the hardware is probably inferior, but at such a low price point you could buy a couple to have spares and be way ahead financially. Similarly, I expect the big name brand inserts might last longer, but when they cost ten times as much I can't ignore that for my hobby use.

These are the inserts I'm really impressed with...I recently got some like them in DCMT but haven't tried them yet.

www.ebay.com

HRC65 Nano blue CCMT060204/08 CCMT09T304/08 CCMT120404/08 ZM1135 carbide insert | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for HRC65 Nano blue CCMT060204/08 CCMT09T304/08 CCMT120404/08 ZM1135 carbide insert at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
Click to expand...
Those look much like the inserts I got.


Not sure about the coating or what its supposed to be, but I've never been big on coatings to begin with.

But like I said, the quality of the carbide is good for all around shop use in my experience.
 
I made a few insert lathe tools, and they worked just fine. I showed them to a real machinist, and he said that the next time I was around real machinists, I should keep my stupid homemade tools to myself. I asked him if I should buy a Sandvik or Kennaetal tool, and he said that they will work but are overpriced. He said that if I was a real machinist, I would know what to buy, and it wouldn't be one of those name brands, but a name brand would be better than wasting time on a goofy looking homemade tool. I tend to be of the school "actual results are the supreme arbiter of any controversy," but somehow that annoys people. There are some good suggestions in this thread and I'm sure that they will most likely work out just fine, most of the time.
 
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