How cheap should one get with carbide tool holders ?

ericc said:
I made a few insert lathe tools, and they worked just fine. I showed them to a real machinist, and he said that the next time I was around real machinists, I should keep my stupid homemade tools to myself. I asked him if I should buy a Sandvik or Kennaetal tool, and he said that they will work but are overpriced. He said that if I was a real machinist, I would know what to buy, and it wouldn't be one of those name brands, but a name brand would be better than wasting time on a goofy looking homemade tool. I tend to be of the school "actual results are the supreme arbiter of any controversy," but somehow that annoys people. There are some good suggestions in this thread and I'm sure that they will most likely work out just fine, most of the time.
Click to expand...
If true this guy sounds like an idiot.
 
maxime.levesque said:
I received the tools yesterday, and found a "quality assurance" issue: one of the tools had the insert screw hole off position by aprox half a millimetre, the screw hole misalignment prevents the screw from entering it's hole when the carbide insert is in place.
Click to expand...
A well made insert tool holder, regardless of brand or source, should have the screw hole offset slightly in oder to force the insert into the back of the seat. This is also why many have a tapered screw head. Clamp type of course is a different thing. Stefan G has a video of makng an insert tool holder where he explains the offset.

I bought a USA made set at NAMES one year, made of butter and the inserts meant for tapered screw haed had normal set screws. Since then
I buy from AliExpress only. No disappointments. When you find a stor eyou like, keep using that one instead of searching for the lowest total price.
 
ericc said:
I showed them to a real machinist, and he said that the next time I was around real machinists, I should keep my stupid homemade tools to myself.
Click to expand...
LOL! That’s been exactly my experience with professional machinists as well.
If you really want to tick them off, start talking about how great your sub 2 ton lathe is. Lol
 
The questions I always have when I see a post like this is why buy the cheapest stuff you can find? Why not buy the good stuff?
I don't have a lot of money. So I can't buy new, good tools and equipment.
But I can be patient, defer gratification, pick and choose carefully and watch auctions, sales, Marketplace and Craigslist for the good stuff and when it shows up I buy it then.
 
Ultradog MN said:
The questions I always have when I see a post like this is why buy the cheapest stuff you can find?
Click to expand...
I sure can’t answer for everyone, but we’re talking about insert tool holders here. I don’t recommend antique, in need of repair basket case lathes to new guys. But this is a piece of metal with a tapped hole. Key stock or cold rolled…it’s not that important to me.

Think of the thousands of people who ask for help on this forum. How many times has the answer to their problem been a more expensive insert holder? I gotta guess it’s less than 1 percent. Lol
 
For some things, prices strongly correlate with quality, for some other things the correlation is weak.

Given that machining requires zillions of tools and accessories, I like to spend where it matters most.

Every time I spend less where it matters less, I can spend more where it matters most.

I suspect that tool holders are the kinds of item where the "law of diminishing returns" applies: once you pay enough to weed out the lower bracket, the price/quality ratio can get "good enough", and paying 5x the amount will only improve quality by a marginal amount.

I also suspect that premium prices mostly gets you the QA and predictability, which is well worth the money for professional shops where errors can get costly. As a hobbyist, I don't mind doing a bit of QA, especially when I can return stuff at no cost if I find a defect.

There are dozens of other tools for which I have the same question: what is the accuracy (and repeatability) difference between a Starret telescopic gauge that costs $300, and one that costs $30 ?


Ultradog MN said:
The questions I always have when I see a post like this is why buy the cheapest stuff you can find? Why not buy the good stuff?
I don't have a lot of money. So I can't buy new, good tools and equipment.
But I can be patient, defer gratification, pick and choose carefully and watch auctions, sales, Marketplace and Craigslist for the good stuff and when it shows up I buy it then.
Click to expand...
 
DavidR8 said:
I had a set of generic import holders for CCMT inserts. They were OK but nothing amazing.
I did a bunch of research on inserts and tool holder and decided to splurge on a Microtools CCMT holder and some name brand inserts.
Honestly I wasn't expecting a huge difference but I was genuinely surprised at the difference.
Because I changed two two variables I don't know which made the difference but I suspect it was a combination of both a stiffer holder and better quality inserts.
Click to expand...
I have a set of holders I purchased from PM when I bought my lathe and I had been using their inserts, last friday I stopped at the tool shop that I use and handed the counter guy an insert, told him I was using it on 1018, 1045 and some 4140 and he asked if I was open to suggestions to which I said yes. The inserts he sold me, 80 bucks for 10, are sooooo much better, night and day difference in cut, chips and finish....
 
So far (all the responses in this tread), it seems that inserts matter more than holders.

I.e. if a holder has enough rigidity, and is dimensionaly correct (within range), results will depend more on the inserts.

I also suspect that larger shanks are more forgiving for cheaper metallurgy, only because the amount of material compensates.

verbotenwhisky said:
I have a set of holders I purchased from PM when I bought my lathe and I had been using their inserts, last friday I stopped at the tool shop that I use and handed the counter guy an insert, told him I was using it on 1018, 1045 and some 4140 and he asked if I was open to suggestions to which I said yes. The inserts he sold me, 80 bucks for 10, are sooooo much better, night and day difference in cut, chips and finish....
Click to expand...
 
It's a metal stick with a hole in it. When I can get ten for the cost of one, I can go through a few till I get a good 'un. I've used mostly the cheapest import sets, but have got some name brand pieces included in other deals. I've gone through side by side comparisons, and can't tell a lick of difference.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top