I Got Burnt!!

Sorry, I am not trying to argue.
I can't speak for shipping weight, all I have is what Charter Oak claims.
According to the website, it weighs 770lbs. That is the weight of the typical RF square column clones.
http://charteroakautomation.com/our-products/manual-bed-mill/
I would say your 1200lb shipping weight included the stand and other junk.
Is the website not factual? It seems to me that if they where selling a 1200lb machine they would be advertising this.

This puts it solidly in the same class as the machines I linked. The work envelope is basically an accessory. I am pretty sure the fancy bearings cost an extra $800.00 and are part of the belt drive system, I might be wrong on this.

I am not trying to rain on any ones parade, I am just saying this is not some big heavy duty machine. It is just a middle weight bench top mill.
 
chips&more said:
And then the Imports have the audacity to say they are ISO certified! That tells me that being ISO certified is just a consumer buzz phrase trap…Dave
Click to expand...
ISO 9000 certification doesn't mean that you are making quality products, only that you make consistent products. Now what ISO 9000 does require is continuous quality improvement, part of which is logging issues like customer complaints, taking positive steps to correct those issues, including identifying the root cause of the problem, and following up to ensure the problems don't reoccur.

ISO 9000, taken in the spirit which it is intended, is a powerful tool in the quest for improvement. Unfortunately, for many companies, ISO 9000 is just another bureaucratic requirement that lip service is paid to. As a company, we would ask for evidence of corrective and preventative action being implemented. This forced our vendors to enter the complaints into their quality system documents. Supposedly those are reviewed when the vendor has his outside audit. I don't know if it would work for an individual but it might be worth a try.

Bob
 
RJSakowski said:
ISO 9000 certification doesn't mean that you are making quality products, only that you make consistent products. Now what ISO 9000 does require is continuous quality improvement, part of which is logging issues like customer complaints, taking positive steps to correct those issues, including identifying the root cause of the problem, and following up to ensure the problems don't reoccur.

ISO 9000, taken in the spirit which it is intended, is a powerful tool in the quest for improvement. Unfortunately, for many companies, ISO 9000 is just another bureaucratic requirement that lip service is paid to. As a company, we would ask for evidence of corrective and preventative action being implemented. This forced our vendors to enter the complaints into their quality system documents. Supposedly those are reviewed when the vendor has his outside audit. I don't know if it would work for an individual but it might be worth a try.

Bob
Click to expand...

ISO 9000 only means somthing to companies who are trying to defend a good reputation rather than trying to use the certification as a selling point. The certification only covers documentation, not wether the actual problems are resolved to a satisfactory level or that genuine quality improvemnts are being carried out. A more valid sales point is evidence of batch tracking and quality control processes for quality notifications. Another point to consider whenever purchasing a machine is to check the fine print in the warranty or guarantee. This will tell you a great deal more about how the company views customer service after you have handed over your money.

It seems to me like you have a pretty good understanding of this Bob.

Paul.
 
Coomba said:
Ok let me address some of your questions, but first I have to say, some of what you guys talk about is miles above my head. I did a lot of research before buying this mill. Talking to different company's and picking their brains from what other people educated me in. And this was the first places I visited. The reason I chose the 12Zjr. was because of its table size, weight, and it has a square column, which I was told was a big plus. Yes I do have two complete mills. Yes it would have saved a lot of trouble if they just would have sent the parts. I was told the 12Zjr. was the same exacts mill as the 12Z, but just a bit smaller. This proved not to be true when I tore it down to inspect it for the damaged. When I reported this back to Paul he was dumb founded . Guess they really know their machines. Maybe that's why the didn't just send the parts, they didn't know what they were. Believe me I know when you buy something from China your gonna be working on it right out of the box. This isn't my first duck hunt. Like I said before this was a replacement a second mill. Right now I'm kind of torn, I could sell both of these mills to replace my lost money, or I could use the parts from both and make one, but then I think about some of the technical stuff you guys mention and I'm at a loss. I have been talking to Matt at Precision Matthews and he has a little smaller mill which he says is much better quality then the CO. but cost a bit more. it the model PM450G made in Taiwan. Has anyone heard of it?
Click to expand...

Coomba,

If you have two complete mills for the price of one I would take advantage of that and cherry pick the best parts from each to make a mill to keep and then sell off the other. Heck I would make one good mill and then fix the other and keep both.

Jay
 
Coomba
Do you have both mills ? if so please explain ?
Ok never mind I re read the post my bad
 
Last edited:
The great thing about machining is that it is in our power to fix problems like these instead of wringing our hands and Gnashing our teeth.

Bob
 
joshua43214 said:
Sorry, I am not trying to argue.
I can't speak for shipping weight, all I have is what Charter Oak claims.
According to the website, it weighs 770lbs. That is the weight of the typical RF square column clones.
http://charteroakautomation.com/our-products/manual-bed-mill/
I would say your 1200lb shipping weight included the stand and other junk.
Is the website not factual? It seems to me that if they where selling a 1200lb machine they would be advertising this.

This puts it solidly in the same class as the machines I linked. The work envelope is basically an accessory. I am pretty sure the fancy bearings cost an extra $800.00 and are part of the belt drive system, I might be wrong on this.

I am not trying to rain on any ones parade, I am just saying this is not some big heavy duty machine. It is just a middle weight bench top mill.
Click to expand...

Don't know if you are referring to me, but I never said my mill weight was 1200#. Believe it to be closer to 750lbs.
 
jbolt said:
Coomba,

If you have two complete mills for the price of one I would take advantage of that and cherry pick the best parts from each to make a mill to keep and then sell off the other. Heck I would make one good mill and then fix the other and keep both.

Jay
Click to expand...
Yes I do have two mills, and I have given it a great deal of thought to make one good mill. But the way in which some up guys talk. VERY knowledgeable I add. Flat tables, ways ground straight, lapped and scrapped gibbs. I know I could take them apart and build one, but it just might turn out to be a Frankenstein. And so far the track record for these two mill as been a dud. Heck guys I'm not a machinist.
My thought is to sell them and buy that mill from Precision Matthews. The model I said in post #69 is incorrect. It is a model PM828M. Does anyone have any knowledge of them
 
Coomba said:
Yes I do have two mills, and I have given it a great deal of thought to make one good mill. But the way in which some up guys talk. VERY knowledgeable I add. Flat tables, ways ground straight, lapped and scrapped gibbs. I know I could take them apart and build one, but it just might turn out to be a Frankenstein. And so far the track record for these two mill as been a dud. Heck guys I'm not a machinist.
My thought is to sell them and buy that mill from Precision Matthews. The model I said in post #69 is incorrect. It is a model PM828M. Does anyone have any knowledge of them
Click to expand...

I would not let all the talk scare you off. You may mostly be hearing form people who have had an issue or know nothing about the machine. CO has been around a long time. It is easy enough to check the machine for being square and true.

The grass may not be any greener somewhere else. There are only so many factories where these machines are manufactured in China. Many parts are interchangeable across brands.

I have a PM-932 and while I am happy with the machine it was not without it issues. It has been a good platform for the CNC conversion I did.

I have not heard of a PM-828M nor is it on their website. I know they are coming out with a PM-940M which has a larger work envelope than the PM-932 and PM-45. If it is a new model and they don't have them in stock be prepared to wait and it may not be 100% when you get it.

Jay
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top