Logan/mw 04tlc-701a Purchase

[47convertible]

Hi All,
Just purchased this 10 inch Montgomery Ward/Logan 701A. At least that's what it says on the attached plate.
Serial number is a bit confusing to me as there are three separate numbers on the right hand end of the bed.
One is 69. There is an inch or so of space and the 1065P. Below that the numers 9898. I'm assuming the 1065P is the serial and that this is a 1947 or 48 year lathe. There is the letter W stamped in between the ways on the rear right hand of the bed.

Cast into the rear side of the bed is a raised diamond shape with letters that look like BHF (very hard to read) and above that a cast in date 1-19-48 (could possibly be 1-19-46 as the last numeral is also very hard to read.

The lathe has some interesting features: New-All quick change threading attachment, a turret carriage stop with four positions, some kind of tool holder on the back side of the cross slide. It has what looks to be a cut off tool in it. It has a 3-jaw chuck mounted. A larger 4-jaw chuck that might be too large for this lathe and a face plate which also looks to be too large were in the box of 'extras'. Tool holder is a four tool of the type often seen and the original lantern style tool holder is in the box. A dozen or so extra gears that probably were original and before the New-All quick change threading box. A set of extra jaws for the 3-jaw chuck. A milling attachment that looks like a Craftsman/Atlas was also in the parts box.

The ways look good and the carriage, when tightened some cranks with fairly even pressure along the length of the ways. Hand cross feed works OK as does the compound feed.

The motor and motor carrier/countershaft(?) and pulley assembly was disassembled when I looked at the lathe. There is an older 1/3 hp 220V motor that looks as oily as the rest of the lathe so may have been on it at some point. And there is a newer 1/2 hp frigidare 1750 rpm single phase motor with the parts.

A curious hole and tool on the front side of the headstock. The tool and hole are located so when the tool is pushed in it locks the large gear in the headstock. I am presuming this is to enable removal of chuck???.
I haven't examined everything closely but have not located the hole or the insert to engage the back gear. Maybe I haven't looked close enough or the lever at the left side of the headstock does that function? I'm an obvious newbie to the machine tool world so a whole lot more I don't know than do know. For example while I've figured out some of the controls on the carriage some remain a bit of a mystery particularly since its not powered at this point.



I've disassembled everything I can and brought home parts to clean up and check out. The table it sits on and the bed and headstock with carriage are still at the previous owner's place. I will move those this Sat. when I can recruit some young and stronger-than-me help. Table appears to be a very well done home-made unit with an oil/coolant reservoir built in and a couple of belt driven oil pumps and some piping were included in the parts boxes.

I'm going to take my time cleaning up and assembling to make sure what I got is worth continuing to fix up and maybe purchase some better things for, but don't want to get the cart ahead of the horse here.

Any help from those of you with similar lathes as to whether I'm accurately describing what I purchased would be greatly appreciated. I'd like to know if this is a regular lathe with some options or a thrown-together hodge-podge of lathe parts. I really do want it to be a good old lathe than can be brought back to life and make chips but if that can't be done at some reasonable cost the obvious exit strategy is to part it out.

I am currently enrolled in a night class on machine shop at a local community college and am on my 3rd quarter of the class so what I've been learning about lathe and other machine operations will come in very handy.

I don't think the financial risk is much as I'm in this $300. at this point. No doubt if it proves to be a decent running lathe the costs for tooling and an endless array of other tempting things will skyrocket the costs.
Jerry
ps. on the copy of this post I viewed the picture of the whole lathe appears out of place. Don't know how that happened. Maybe one of the moderators can fix?

 

[brino]

Nice find.

The ways look good and the carriage, when tightened some cranks with fairly even pressure along the length of the ways. Hand cross feed works OK as does the compound feed.

It sounds like there is still life left in it.
How are the headstock bearings?

Wow that rear parting tool post looks like a very rigid box design. I bet that would run with little to no chatter.
I have never seen a turret carriage stop like that....I like it!

I would like to see some close-up pictures of the headstock.....and of course more pictures as you progress.

Thanks for posting!

-brino

 

[47convertible]

Thanks for your comments. Headstock bearings seem tight and no typical bearing noise when turned by hand but might be different under power. I think I read somewhere that all Logan lathes had caged roller bearings and so no babbit or bronze bushings. I hope so. Re. the rear parting tool post. I am a newbie so putting tools on the backside in a different holder seems contrary to me even if running in reverse. I'd like to learn the logic behind that. So much I don't know. I will post additional photos of headstock when I get all the parts home in a week or so. My first lathe so my head is up a bit in the clouds about all of this. Cleaning and reassembly and getting it going may bring me back to the ground.
Jerry

 

[Rex Walters]

My guess is that, like mine, this is a bit of a franken-lathe — previous owner(s) may have done substantial modifications and improvements.

That cross-slide and rear attachment are pretty interesting. I could be wrong, but I suspect they aren't original with the lathe. The cross slide looks like a combo cross-slide/boring-table type design a'la Myford/GHT/Metal Lathe Accessories. That looks like some sort of combo milling attachment / transfer block / rear-toolpost in the rear (see this one from Andy Lofquist). That type of long cross slide is extremely useful. Hopefully the rest of the lathe is in good shape.

You might be interested in my thread on making a replacement cross-slide that looks something like yours. Mine was built from a casting from Andy Lofquist at Metal Lathe Accessories.

It looks like a previous owner filled one of the tee-slots on the cross-slide with plaster or something — I wonder why?

The bits and bobs on the front of the headstock are also interesting. The top lever (above the tag) is to engage the back gears. The whirly-gig looking thing appears to be a carriage stop (very useful for repeated operations). I can't see it clearly, but if the lever next to the carriage-stop engages/locks the bull gear it could be just a simple lock to remove the chuck as you suspect (though most people just use the back gear lever to do that). It might be an indexing mechanism, though: the bull gear has 72 teeth, so you can index in 5 degree increments. Check to see if the bull gear has marks for 30/45/90 degree increments.

The hand wheel on the compound doesn't look original, either, and it looks enormous in the photo. Does it interfere with the cross-slide hand wheel?

Scott Logan still sells a manual and parts for the Wards 700 series lathes if you need them.

Very interesting find. If it works at all, $300 was a great deal.

Please keep us informed as you get the lathe in working order! I'm very curious about this lathe (I own a Wards 2130 series lathe which is a little different from yours).

Enjoy!
--
Rex

 

[Rex Walters]

I am a newbie so putting tools on the backside in a different holder seems contrary to me even if running in reverse.

You don't want to run a lathe with a screw-on chuck in reverse (the chuck can — will — unscrew itself and go flying).

With a rear-mount toolpost, you mount the tool (usually a cut-off tool) upside down with the cutting edge on the bottom, and you still run the lathe normally (spinning counter-clockwise if you face left). I've not finished building my rear-mount toolpost yet (sooo many projects stacked up) but I'm told that a rear-mount cutoff tool actually works significantly better than a front mounted one for several reasons:

1. More rigidity: no compound or quick-change toolpost interfaces and a more massive, less-adjustable toolpost.

2. With the cutting edge on the bottom, the tool should be pushed away from the cut rather than into the cut if it binds (a rear mounted tool should be at or just slightly above centerline).

3. Gravity should help chips fall into the chip tray rather than getting caught in the groove.

Regards,
--
Rex

 

[Rex Walters]

One other thing: after puzzling it out a bit more, I think both of our lathes may have been built in 1947 (I previously thought mine was circa 1941, but now that I re-examine Logan's confusing table of serial numbers I see that the serial numbers restarted in 1947 with an "A" suffix — mine is serial number 3124A).

You should join the Logan Lathe mailing list and ask them about your lathe, especially the "1065P" stamp above the 9898. Scott Logan may be able to tell you a lot more about its provenance.

From the messed up baseline, I think the "69" was probably stamped by a previous owner (likely when he acquired it in 1969) rather than at the factory. The serial number on my 1947 model 2130 is in the lower right (where yours reads 9898, mine reads 3124A). The 1065P at the upper right on yours mystifies me, though.

If I'm reading the table correctly, yours could have been built in 1940 if it is s/n 1065 (though the "P" is confusing). If it's serial number 9898 as I suspect, it was likely built in January of 1947 (before 1/24/47).

Older than me, but younger than my parents. <laugh>
--
Rex

 

[wa5cab]

One minor comment - the extra set of jaws for the 3-jaw could be the outside jaw set. 4-jaw jaws are usually reversible. So only one set comes with the chuck. The jaws for 3-jaw chucks with one-piece jaws aren't reversible, so the chucks always come with two sets of jaws, one for gripping parts with a diameter up to about one-half the chuck diameter and one for gripping larger parts.

 

[eeler1]

That is one highly customized lathe. I guess the manual from Logan will help some, but just don't expect things match up. And my, what large hand wheels, looks like larger graduated collars maybe? If so, and properly installed, thats a good thing. Plus a frigidaire motor, how cool is that? (pun intended).

None of which means it won't do good work for you. Might even be kinda fun figuring out the changes and why they were made, so actually a great project for a starter lathe. You will get to know it inside and out before you're done. Ive spent $300 in worse ways.

It has the quick change gearbox, but the plain apron, meaning that left/right power feed is still from the half nuts/lead screw and there is no clutch to slip if you crash it. so be careful with the power feeds.

Have fun and keep the pictures coming.

 

[47convertible]

That is one highly customized lathe. I guess the manual from Logan will help some, but just don't expect things match up. And my, what large hand wheels, looks like larger graduated collars maybe? If so, and properly installed, thats a good thing. Plus a frigidaire motor, how cool is that? (pun intended).

Have fun and keep the pictures coming.

___________________________________________________________________

Boy, am I getting a great schooling on the lathe I purchased. It is great to get these responses. I know a whole lot more about it than I did a few hours ago when I posted. What fun! Thanks to you all.
Jerry

 

[47convertible]

My guess is that, like mine, this is a bit of a franken-lathe — previous owner(s) may have done substantial modifications and improvements.
______________________________________________________________

It appears your thoughts about my lathe being a "Frankenlathe" were spot on. I wrote an email to Logan Actuator to see if they could provide more information. Reply was quick and writer should get a prize for brevity. I asked about the same things you were curious about Rex. Their response is in bold print:

Proper identification:

04TLC-701A

To begin with here are numbers and letters on the far right end of
the bed:
Which is the serial number 1065P or 9898? I'm thinking 9898 since
the casting on the reverse side of the bed indicates a January 1946
or 48 date. If 9898 is the serial what is the 1065P stamping and the
69 stamping?

Can't be 100% certain, but it appears the correct serial number is 9898.

Do the initials inside the diamond shape have any significance as far
as identification?
Also there is a W stamped on the far right end of the bed between the
ways on the far side. What does that denote?

No idea. Probably casting or inspection marks.

There are apparently a number of options or changes made to this
lathe over the years including the New-All quick change threading
gear box and the small hole and part that fits into it that locks
the large gear when it is pushed in. I'm not sure what this is about
and no other Logan/MW lathe I've seen has this. Since the lathe came
with a milling accessory (lower right of photo below) it might have some function in indexing. I'd really like to know
about this part and function.

This is not a Logan product, so no idea.

There is also a turret with four carriage stops which I understand to
have been a Logan accessory.

Could be from Logan or another manufacturer.

Finally the cross feed does not look like a typical Logan based on my
few observations of Logan lathes and comments from others.
Is the cross feed an option? One person who looked at this photo said it looked like a Myford. At any
rate the tool holder on the backside is something I've never seen in
my very limited experience. I'm not able to identify the round post with tapped hole in lower center
of picture as to original or not and function it is intended to
serve.

Again, not a Logan product.

Thanks for any assistance you can provide.