Old Horizontal Mill-will I Have Problems Drilling?

[MozamPete]

Horizontal mills do not have their axes labeled the same as a vertical mill. On any machine, Z is always parallel to the spindle, left/right on a lathe, up/down on a vertical mill, and towards and away from the column on a horizontal mill. On a horizontal mill, the table left/right is X, up/down is Y, and in and out from the column it Z. It is very confusing speaking about it using the wrong nomenclature, and will get you into even more trouble with things like surface grinders, chuckers, and horizontal boring mills. Just remember that Z is always in line with the spinning thing.

I'm with thanvg - while I understand the convention (sort of), my machine has both a vertical and a horizontal spindle (see post #4 above) and changing the axis names depending on which spindle I'm using is likely to cause more confusion than clarity. Left/Right, In/Out and Up/Down works for me.

That being said, if Z is the axis parallel to the spindle, how is the X and Y defined? Is it correct that X is just the one with of the other two axis with the longest travel (I heard that explanation once but don't know if it is correct or not)

 

[Bob Korves]

I'm with thanvg - while I understand the convention (sort of), my machine has both a vertical and a horizontal spindle (see post #4 above) and changing the axis names depending on which spindle I'm using is likely to cause more confusion than clarity. Left/Right, In/Out and Up/Down works for me.

That being said, if Z is the axis parallel to the spindle, how is the X and Y defined? Is it correct that X is just the one with of the other two axis with the longest travel (I heard that explanation once but don't know if it is correct or not)

I gave the same response here that I did on Abom79's channel. Adam said he is used to vertical mills and he was going to continue to name their axes in the same way on his new to him horizontal mill. I replied that was fine for yourself alone, but will confuse others when you use your own "language" to communicate with them and the words mean different things on each side of the conversation. I find that hopeless.

If you ever get into CNC machining, you WILL learn the proper names for axes or be lost. I know very little about CNC stuff, but I still hope to speak a common language when communicating with those who do.

http://yarchive.net/metal/axis_naming.html
http://www.cncci.com/resources/articles/CNC basics 2.htm

I am not trying to be the axis police... ;-)

 

[Wreck™Wreck]

That being said, if Z is the axis parallel to the spindle, how is the X and Y defined? Is it correct that X is just the one with of the other two axis with the longest travel (I heard that explanation once but don't know if it is correct or not)

Traditionally the Z axis is parallel to the spindle, CNC lathes and manual lathe DRO's use this convention, you do not often see a 2 axis lathe with a Y axis, if one were to put a scale on the compound of a conventional lathe and use a 3 axis DRO then the compound would be Y.

As an aside different manufacturers of CNC machines and DRO's have different default settings for lathe Z axis moves, for instance I run a Bridgeport/Romi CNC lathe (this is a mid 90's machine) that considers any move toward the chuck from Z zero a negative move. Today I programmed a peck drill cycle, START Z 0.000, FINISH Z 2.125, FIRST PECK 1.000, FOLLOWING PECKS .250, FEEDRATE .010. This was fine aside from the fact that it promptly drilled air toward the tail stock. I had failed to put a minus sign before the finish Z of 2.125, no harm in this instance. If one were to do this while OD turning too a shoulder with a live center in the material the best outcome is that the carriage pushes the tail stock down the bed, worst case the tool itself hits the live center, this is never pretty.

Right next to this machine is a manual lathe that I run often, the DRO has the exact opposite default Z settings, positive numbers toward the chuck, negative numbers away so I switch between the two several times per week. The reason that I don't change the defaults is that I am not the only machinist who might use either machine during a given week.

For the most part if you consider the axis that moves parallel to and toward or away from the spindle the Z axis you will find nearly all machines use this convention.
As far as horizontal manual mills go, in the rare event that I am required to use them I always consider the spindle Z, the long table axis X and the table "height" Y

 

[thanvg]

Thanks for the info guys, not very comfortable with this official axes naming but will digest and start using it. (try to start using it...)

Now, really, what happens if you rotate the spindle of a BP by 45 or 90 degrees? Will the naming change or do we name a machine's axes at the 'default' configuration?

 

[brino]

will digest and start using it. (try to start using it...)

If you do you will confuse the heck out of me!

Bob Korves, may be technically correct (I don't know, I have not looked it up) but my brain would have trouble swapping axis just because I remove/replace the vertical head on my "horizontal" mill.

I also strive to use the correct terminology for things, but this one will likely never gel.

-brino

 

[Wreck™Wreck]

I also strive to use the correct terminology for things, but this one will likely never gel.

-brino

Like most things there is no "correct" nomenclature for axis definitions, machine manufacturers will designate them as they wish or how the individual machine is set up. We have a 2.5 axis Fadal with an "A" axis that's only purpose is moving a high pressure coolant nozzle to direct the stream at the point of cut after each tool change, if we were to change that axis control board to a rotary table or trunion for instance that would then be the A axis, from coolant nozzle to rotary table in one software change.

How would one label the axes on a swiss lathe with 5 that would traditionally be considered the X axis? Some manufacturers just give them random letters (-:

As with any advancing technology old trusted norms must change along with the accepted standards.

 

[Bob Korves]

Traditionally the Z axis is parallel to the spindle, CNC lathes and manual lathe DRO's use this convention, you do not often see a 2 axis lathe with a Y axis, if one were to put a scale on the compound of a conventional lathe and use a 3 axis DRO then the compound would be Y.

On a typical manual lathe, an example of a Y axis is a milling attachment.

 

[Bob Korves]

Again, I am not the axis police. Any of us can call any axis anything we want when we are working quietly by ourselves and it does not cause any issues. The problems come when we want to communicate with others, like a post to this forum, or written instructions on how to do something. If I may suggest a workaround, call it anything you want, but do not use controversial labeling when speaking or writing. Instead, call it "left/right", "up/down", "in/out" or whatever to sidestep the issue. Anything that makes others clearly understand with certainty what you are referring to.

 

[thanvg]

Again, I am not the axis police. Any of us can call any axis anything we want when we are working quietly by ourselves and it does not cause any issues. The problems come when we want to communicate with others, like a post to this forum, or written instructions on how to do something. If I may suggest a workaround, call it anything you want, but do not use controversial labeling when speaking or writing. Instead, call it "left/right", "up/down", "in/out" or whatever to sidestep the issue. Anything that makes others clearly understand with certainty what you are referring to.

That's right Bob...

 

[thanvg]

well guys, just wanted to share that I am finally close to having the pie whole and having eaten it, by ordering a nice old
Prvomajska ALG 100, a Yugoslavian Deckel FP1 knock off, with the known configuration (horizontal plus vertical head) but also having a 75mm-travel quill!
Waiting for it to arrive from Germany now....will post some pics when I finally get it!