Stuck 5V Collet

P

ps15toolroom

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Greetings. I recently acquired a VN12 and I've never used these machines before. The machine was setup with a horizontal arbor and from what I can tell about the machine's work history, that machine could have been setup that way for years.
Anyway, I couldn't remove the 5v shank arbor when I disassembled it. I tried going through the gears to find a "low" gear where I couldn't turn the spindle by hand but couldn't find one. I have the cutter head removed with the arbor still in the spindle. I've tried putting an adjustable on the flats on the arbor and a wrench on the hex section of the draw tube but I'm afraid to use to much force.
I assume you turn the draw tube counter clock-wise? Do I need to tap on the top of the hex portion to get it out? What should I do?

Thanks
 
You might take a look at http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=3376 and find the type of arbor and drawtube you've got, just to be sure. Have you been able to turn the drawtube at all?

You might consider getting some kroil / liquid wrench type product down into the area, to help, if you can.

The thread spec for VN C / Hardinge 5V collets and thus your drawtube should be 0.775" x 18 RH.

You might post some pictures of what you've got...
 
Plus on what pjb said about kroil oil . Have you backed off the draw rod a couple of times and given the head of the draw rod a couple of sharpe raps with a hammer. Sometimes that's enough to make the taper for release. We all like pictures of equipment. The taper is a self holding taper and with out backing out the draw rod and giving it a tap it won't release.
 
It should come free if you loosen the drawbar/drawtube and give a whack with a chunk of 2X4
after using some penetrating oil for a few days
A bit of heat from a heatlamp or floor heater for a few hours might help too
-Mark
 
I have not been able to turn the draw tube without also turning the spindle. I'll oil it best I can and then i'll put the flats on the end of the arbor in a vise and try to turn the draw tube.
 
You might consider using a socket impact driver very carefully if you have an exposed hex on the drawtube, once you've gotten penetrating oil in there, if you can't break the drawtube free with reasonable leverage.

Obviously you've got high quality bearings in there, but if the spindle is immobilized and the shock from the impact driver is rotational only, you're probably ok.

If you can't get a good grip on the spindle from the front, since you have the head off possibly a hardwood wedge against the spiral bevel gear would immobilize the spindle enough to apply the necessary torque.

BTW it is not surprising you couldn't immobilize the spindle enough while on the machine through the gearing. Even on my VN22L, in the lowest gear with leverage one can turn the whole geartrain and motor from the spindle.
 
One thing to check-- I'm not sure about the VN12-- and why I asked what kind of drawbar/drawtube you have...

on the VN22, the drawbar has two pieces-- the whole drawbar itself threads into the arbor, and then a second nut captive on the drawbar which tightens down against the rear of the spindle. So with a drawbar setup like that, you need to loosen the captive nut which would allow you to tap the drawbar end and release the collet or arbor. Then unscrew the drawbar itself.

But again, I'm not sure whether the VN12's drawtube is like this (I think not?) but it's something to look for.
 
pjb said:
One thing to check-- I'm not sure about the VN12-- and why I asked what kind of drawbar/drawtube you have...

on the VN22, the drawbar has two pieces-- the whole drawbar itself threads into the arbor, and then a second nut captive on the drawbar which tightens down against the rear of the spindle. So with a drawbar setup like that, you need to loosen the captive nut which would allow you to tap the drawbar end and release the collet or arbor. Then unscrew the drawbar itself.

But again, I'm not sure whether the VN12's drawtube is like this (I think not?) but it's something to look for.
Click to expand...
The exploded vied of the headstock depicts the draw tube as a single piece. So I'm assuming it is one piece. Thanks for all replies so far.
 
Just to help fill in the picture (as it were) ps15toolroom's mill uses the VN 'C' collets / arbors direct to his spindle. Yes, the 22 & up uses an adapter at the driving end to engage the same setup to the spindle. This would be similar to what the 7 1/2" dividing head uses to secure collets, etc. The only difference being the draw tube length. If, indeed the draw tube has a hollow top, soaking the threads with a suitable vertical placement should really aid extraction!

Sorry, my VN 'C' experience does not currently involve having a draw tube.
 
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gave a quick try last night. I know I probably shouldn't clamp on the cover but I wasn't going hard. Do I need to remove the spindle dogs? This thing is stuck!
 
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