Stuck 5V Collet

[pjb]

pictures are helpful. inboard of the drawtube knurled section, you've got what look to be two discs with holes in the side, which may be some sort of jam nut? if you put a close-fitting pin or punch in those holes, does that give you leverage to turn them?

if it were me, I would possibly do some of the following:

- clamp the cutters on the arbor between pieces of wood in a strong vise, which should immobilize the arbor well
- consider an impact driver on the hex at the end of the drawbar
- or unscrew the arbor nut, and potentially use the keyed shaft of the arbor to immobilize the arbor

the spindle dogs don't need to come out, unless they are convenient to give you leverage on the arbor.

 

[ps15toolroom]

pictures are helpful. inboard of the drawtube knurled section, you've got what look to be two discs with holes in the side, which may be some sort of jam nut?

I don't see these "jam nuts" in the exploded view of the headstock and will try to loosen them.
By the way there is another blind hole, with no thread inside, on the spindle nose. Is this a manual spindle brake like on my grizzly mill? My grizzly mill has a small pin shaft I put into a hole on the nose to stop rotation while I turn draw bar. Just a thought?
Anyone in this thread have a vn12?

 

[pjb]

If you're talking about the ring surrounding the spindle which has mounting holes?

I'm guessing it is for a dowel pin to locate accessories that can bolt up to the spindle (e.g. slotter attachment). I have a slotter for my VN22L that has a dowel pin for this purpose.

 

[ps15toolroom]

I got the jam nuts loose below the knurled draw tube flange. I had to put pipes on my pins to break the nuts loose and it bent the pins.
Once those jam nuts were broken loose, the spindle began to turn a bit more freely by hand where as before it had a bit of a click to it. Now the spindle can be pushed back and forth about .05 through the head casting. It is possible those jam nuts are for axial preload?
The tool holder is still stuck, I keep spraying oil on everything each time I mess with it.
I looked in the cutter head and in my photo you can see what I believe is the keyed spindle and the draw tube runs through that.
Just to be clear, I should be turning the draw tube counter clockwise?
Any more ideas? I really am not wanting to clamp this thing down to a mill table and breaker bar the draw tube, that's my last resort.

 

[ps15toolroom]

I would like to point out that in this thread >>> https://www.hobby-machinist.com/thr...-vn-no-12-spindle-ring-and-pinion-shot.81727/
You can see in the first post a photo of the top of the cutter head with the same two jam nuts that i have. Theirs are painted which leads me to believe they are for spindle preload and should have been left alone.

 

[pjb]

I would like to point out that in this thread >>> https://www.hobby-machinist.com/thr...-vn-no-12-spindle-ring-and-pinion-shot.81727/
You can see in the first post a photo of the top of the cutter head with the same two jam nuts that i have. Theirs are painted which leads me to believe they are for spindle preload and should have been left alone.

You're almost certainly right.

View attachment 385974
I got the jam nuts loose below the knurled draw tube flange. I had to put pipes on my pins to break the nuts loose and it bent the pins.
Once those jam nuts were broken loose, the spindle began to turn a bit more freely by hand where as before it had a bit of a click to it. Now the spindle can be pushed back and forth about .05 through the head casting. It is possible those jam nuts are for axial preload?
The tool holder is still stuck, I keep spraying oil on everything each time I mess with it.
I looked in the cutter head and in my photo you can see what I believe is the keyed spindle and the draw tube runs through that. View attachment 385975
Just to be clear, I should be turning the draw tube counter clockwise?
Any more ideas? I really am not wanting to clamp this thing down to a mill table and breaker bar the draw tube, that's my last resort.

The VN-C collet has a .775-18RH thread. So assuming your drawtube is that same thread, you would turn counter-clockwise.

 

[pjb]

looking at your pictures, I see I think why the jam nuts are there?

It looks like your head is missing the rear cap (part no 12-898) and probably missing the lock washer and nut that is shown in the parts diagram, and instead has that jam nut pair. So apologies for suggesting you loosen the jam nuts. You'll just need to snug them up for now a bit and then remember to set the preload once you have the head ready to run again.

 

[ps15toolroom]

No worries about loosening the jam nuts. I'd like to tear down the machine 100% and recondition in the spring anyway so it's all coming apart eventually. Now where am I going to find a new spindle cap casting?
As of right now, I'm thinking of buying a plastic tube large enough to accommodate the attached horizontal arbor and soaking in mineral spirits. Then using liquid wrench or the like in the spindle nose, clamping the cutter head to a table and going full force.

 

[pjb]

No worries about loosening the jam nuts. I'd like to tear down the machine 100% and recondition in the spring anyway so it's all coming apart eventually. Now where am I going to find a new spindle cap casting?
As of right now, I'm thinking of buying a plastic tube large enough to accommodate the attached horizontal arbor and soaking in mineral spirits. Then using liquid wrench or the like in the spindle nose, clamping the cutter head to a table and going full force.

What you have may or may not allow garbage to get down into the rear bearings? maybe if they're exposed you'd want to do something about it. The cap on my VN22 is a good fit and has an o-ring in it too, so keeps the dirt out and the grease in to some degree.

I've had 2 horizontal mills so far (VN22 and a K&T) both of which had very tight/stuck drawbars, and arbor nuts in several cases. In all cases very large wrenches did the job. In your case, you can get a socket on there, you can always try an impact tool.

Someone else suggested heat I think? If you warmed one end, perhaps the drawtube, maybe you'd get a bit of expansion and/or help with whatever rust or material is locking up those threads. A heatgun maybe, not hot enough to do any damage to anything (don't know if there are any oil seals in that head?). The drawtube would be entirely inside the spindle anyway so not in contact with any seals.

 

[ps15toolroom]

I brought the cutter head to work and put the arbor in a vise with some aluminum cushions. Once it was clamped properly the drawtube turned smoothly and I tapped the shank out. Minimal brown oil or rust water other wise no rust. Washed the arbor and drawtube in the part washing tank. I noticed that the key in the spindle is sheared off. Not a big deal. Anyway I'm free to continue work on my machine.