Another Leblond lubrication question -Premium Tractor Hydraulic Fluid

itsme_Bernie

itsme_Bernie

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Good afternoon everybody,
hi read somewhere that it’s possible to get the proper lubrication for by 1957 squarehead 13 inch Regal at Tractor Supply.
This is what I found:

Premium Tractor Hydraulic Fluid, 5 gal., T806391


In the price tag above the bucket on the ground, it says ISO/46. My problem is it does not say this on the actual bucket. On the webpage it does not say there is detergent or anything, but somewhere down in the questions and answers somebody thinks it does.

I was hoping to get some opinions here if this is the right stuff for my machine here.
If it’s the right stuff, it would be a good deal and I could just pick it up and drive it home. I just don’t want to get stuck with 5 gallons of the wrong stuff.

I want to become an expert in identifying oils and what’s the designation Gar, I didn’t know if ISO/46 mentor were no detergent? Or it’s possible to get detergent and non-detergent versions?

AAACK

Thanks

Bernie
 
To clarify, I know the tag on the machine says 30 weight oil, but I’ve heard all over the place that Leblond has updated that information that 20 weight oil is actually better. People have said that it flows better into the journals in the bearings then heavier weight oil, especially at higher speeds.

Can any of you guys tell if there is detergent in the Oil in the lake in my message above?

Bernie
 
This is what I use in my 17x60 Summit lathe. Works well at a decent price. I don't think it has detergent because it's for use in tractor transmissions and hydraulics.
 
gwade said:
This is what I use in my 17x60 Summit lathe. Works well at a decent price. I don't think it has detergent because it's for use in tractor transmissions and hydraulics.
Click to expand...
Thank you Gwade
I was about to buy it when I read in the comments of the stupid webpage that someone thought it had detergents in it. I’m sure there’s no way to know if that person knows anything, but I suddenly pictured being stuck with a big bucket of detergent oil I couldn’t use.
 
the problem is usually with anti-wear additive characteristics of some hydraulic fluids. some of these anti-wear additives attack yellow metals.

not that it does not exist,
but i have not seen detergent hydraulic oil in use for juice powered equipment- including forklifts, scissor lifts, heavy equipment (dozers, backhoes), log splitters, trenchers, food processing equipment or compactors.

i like the ISO68, the ISO46 seems a bit thin to me, but either case the traveler's stuff is in my shop as we speak
 
Any of you guys know where to find out specs about oils like these? Tractor Supply website is particularly vague about them, annoyingly. Can't even find if this is an "R&O" oil or "AM"!
 
itsme_Bernie said:
Good afternoon everybody,
hi read somewhere that it’s possible to get the proper lubrication for by 1957 squarehead 13 inch Regal at Tractor Supply.
This is what I found:

Premium Tractor Hydraulic Fluid, 5 gal., T806391


In the price tag above the bucket on the ground, it says ISO/46. My problem is it does not say this on the actual bucket. On the webpage it does not say there is detergent or anything, but somewhere down in the questions and answers somebody thinks it does.

I was hoping to get some opinions here if this is the right stuff for my machine here.
If it’s the right stuff, it would be a good deal and I could just pick it up and drive it home. I just don’t want to get stuck with 5 gallons of the wrong stuff.

I want to become an expert in identifying oils and what’s the designation Gar, I didn’t know if ISO/46 mentor were no detergent? Or it’s possible to get detergent and non-detergent versions?

AAACK

Thanks

Bernie
Click to expand...

I spend enough time sciencing oil spec's at work.... I don't want to do it at home.

For my money, tractor hydraulic fluid is out of the question, because of exactly what you're finding. Claims are bold at first, but finding facts gets fiddly and frustrating, and is usually well out of date by the time you find it.

The oil you're looking for does not have any high demands on it. Most "discount" tractor fluids are designed for a different environment than you're going to apply it to. The biggest, absolute biggest difference for me, is moisture control. Modern tractor fluids require "warming up" to a very good degree periodically in order to do their moisture control thing. And after that, other concerns include add packs that I don't want for brakes, hypoid stuff, and a lot of the "discount" brands have seal sweller's in them (like high mileage engine oil), which make an excellent band-aid, but kinda lock you into that brand (or another that does the same), because it's swolen up (and thereby worn down) every bit of rubber it might ever encounter... Again, might or might not be in the oil you choose, but how do you know if it's not made available to you?

Am I saying that every tractor fluid is no good in every climate and every working environment? Absolutely not. And honestly, in commercial environments where a machine might run eight, sixteen, or twenty four hours a day, the climate is well controlled... Probably gonna be a lot less fussy than the same machine that's used a couple of times a week, or a couple of times a month. Do the brands available on the shelf at retail farm, hardware, and parts stores have enough information published to find that information? No. Is it worth the headache to find out? Not to me. AW oils aren't bad in price. Not good compared to 303, or discounted "tractor fluid", but VERY good compared to an oil which is built to a standard which allows the manufacturer (blender....) to toss out hard and current spec's that they can be held accountable for.

Personally... (And I already said, I do enough of this crap at work, keeping many millions of dollars worth of stufff moving), I use so little, that I literally bought the closest there is in the modern world to the original spec. And it comes at a premium. I use oil in squirts and drops, so I buy gallons. If I were using gallons, and thereby buying pails.... I'd price shop to some degree for sure, but I still wouldn't go to the tractor fluids, even thought any one or another might work well in some cases. I'd pay the smaller tax for the safety of not gambling and look for an AW oil.

That said.... In a hobby use case, where the hours on the machine might tend to be very low... Even a totally wrong oil might not do anything that shows up. You "might" get by just fine and with no notable issues by just filling it with the old drain oil out of your lawn mower... I won't bey trying that, but maybe. There's a lot of folks on a lot of forums who do the wrong thing and don't have bad results. Because it's the internet, I'd bet that there's a few here and there that might not mention that their gear oil fill worked fine for the gear teeth, but took out a plain bearing here and there that was counting on a much lighter oil, but over all, and for the most part, I doubt that most of them are making things up or covering things up. My opinion is indeed based on, to some degree, a risk mitigation, at what I feel is a small expense. Simply to not find out the hard way "what's close enough", and what's "not quite close enough".

.02
 
Jake M said:
I spend enough time sciencing oil spec's at work.... I don't want to do it at home.

For my money, tractor hydraulic fluid is out of the question, because of exactly what you're finding. Claims are bold at first, but finding facts gets fiddly and frustrating, and is usually well out of date by the time you find it.

The oil you're looking for does not have any high demands on it. Most "discount" tractor fluids are designed for a different environment than you're going to apply it to. The biggest, absolute biggest difference for me, is moisture control. Modern tractor fluids require "warming up" to a very good degree periodically in order to do their moisture control thing. And after that, other concerns include add packs that I don't want for brakes, hypoid stuff, and a lot of the "discount" brands have seal sweller's in them (like high mileage engine oil), which make an excellent band-aid, but kinda lock you into that brand (or another that does the same), because it's swolen up (and thereby worn down) every bit of rubber it might ever encounter... Again, might or might not be in the oil you choose, but how do you know if it's not made available to you?

Am I saying that every tractor fluid is no good in every climate and every working environment? Absolutely not. And honestly, in commercial environments where a machine might run eight, sixteen, or twenty four hours a day, the climate is well controlled... Probably gonna be a lot less fussy than the same machine that's used a couple of times a week, or a couple of times a month. Do the brands available on the shelf at retail farm, hardware, and parts stores have enough information published to find that information? No. Is it worth the headache to find out? Not to me. AW oils aren't bad in price. Not good compared to 303, or discounted "tractor fluid", but VERY good compared to an oil which is built to a standard which allows the manufacturer (blender....) to toss out hard and current spec's that they can be held accountable for.

Personally... (And I already said, I do enough of this crap at work, keeping many millions of dollars worth of stufff moving), I use so little, that I literally bought the closest there is in the modern world to the original spec. And it comes at a premium. I use oil in squirts and drops, so I buy gallons. If I were using gallons, and thereby buying pails.... I'd price shop to some degree for sure, but I still wouldn't go to the tractor fluids, even thought any one or another might work well in some cases. I'd pay the smaller tax for the safety of not gambling and look for an AW oil.

That said.... In a hobby use case, where the hours on the machine might tend to be very low... Even a totally wrong oil might not do anything that shows up. You "might" get by just fine and with no notable issues by just filling it with the old drain oil out of your lawn mower... I won't bey trying that, but maybe. There's a lot of folks on a lot of forums who do the wrong thing and don't have bad results. Because it's the internet, I'd bet that there's a few here and there that might not mention that their gear oil fill worked fine for the gear teeth, but took out a plain bearing here and there that was counting on a much lighter oil, but over all, and for the most part, I doubt that most of them are making things up or covering things up. My opinion is indeed based on, to some degree, a risk mitigation, at what I feel is a small expense. Simply to not find out the hard way "what's close enough", and what's "not quite close enough".

.02
Click to expand...
Great food for though Jake

I am finding that Tractor Supply does NOT want you to know, or even ask really, what is in the oil they are selling you. They want to name it, and tell you what they want you to sell you for that use. I bet most of the oils are the same with different packages.
The website even shows opposite information then the label says when you actually see on the label at the store:
On Website:
"Employs a common sump to lubricate hydrostatic transmissions, differentials, wet brakes, hydraulics, and final drive gears"
"Engineered for use on a variety of farm equipment, off-highway machinery, industrial tractors, final drives, power take-off units, wet brakes, power steering units, and hydraulic systems"

Drive to the store and READ the LABEL:
"This product is NOT recommended for transmissions, differentials, wet brakes or final drive gears."

What the heck?? What if I ordered this oil to ship to me? And had a machine waiting for it?? I have googled the HECK out of this and other "Traveller" oils this week, and they will not identify this oil as "AW," "R&O," or anything. This is actually pretty difficult to accomplish, unless you want to keep this information vague and hard to nail down. Total Crap.

Is Zinc content a difference that denotes AW or R&O oils?

This is the text on the back label (drawn from attached image):
"

TRAVELLER® Premium Anti-Wear Hydraulic Fluid ISO 46 (SAE 20 Equivalent) is a high quality hydraulic oil that is specifically formulated to protect against rust, corrosion, foaming, oxidation and meets or exceeds the requirements for industrial and mobile hydraulic systems, Including; Sperry Vickers M-2950-S and 1-286-S, Denison HF-0, HF-1 and HF-2, Cincinnati Milacron P-68, P-69 and P-70, DIN 51524-3 and ISO 11158 HM.


This product is not recommended for transmissions, differentials, wet brakes or final drive gears.
"
Are there any clues here?
I am really learning a lot about oils that I never knew before from this conversation!

Bernie
 

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You sure both these labels are the same product? Straight hydraulic fluid, similar to mineral oil, is for hydraulic systems like a log splitter, etc. with just a pump, valve and reservoir. Tractor transmission fluid is a gear oil/hydraulic oil that is used in transmissions, differentials, final drives, hydro stats etc and also functions as hydraulic oil for lift and remote systems. 2 products, Traveler sells both. Been running the transmission stuff(a lot of people call it tractor fluid). All my life. Used a tractor this week that I bought used in 1979 that has used some brand of this all it’s life. Now the straight hydraulic fluid is not for gearboxes.
 
The good thing about specs is that they’re, specs. If you believe the manufacturer made iso spec oil and that will work in your machine then you’re good to go. You can look up what the spec says on the international standards organization website.

As someone else said the important thing here is no additives that attack yellow metals so if the product in question is formulated for old tractors.

I use VP Racing tractor oil from TSC and have had no problems but if you’re worried the cost difference may be worth the peace of mind.

John
 
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