Anyone Know About Friction Welding? AKA Making a New Vise Screw

[G-ManBart]

Being a vise guy, this is a repair I've made multiple times and there are a couple of ways to go about it.

Ideally you cut everything off flush at the back of the spindle so that's all you're left with. Face the back of the spindle, then bore a hole into the spindle an inch or so and give it a heavy countersink at the mouth. The bore diameter doesn't matter as you're going to turn the screw to fit. Then get a length of something like 8620 which can be welded, thread most of it, and leave several inches smooth so that section will ride in the dynamic jaw without causing wear. Turn down an inch of the smooth section to match the bore you made in the spindle so it's a press fit. Press the spindle in and run a TIG bead around the area when you countersunk. Next you drill a hole through the bottom of the groove in the spindle (where the horseshoe washer rides) and drill through the part you just pressed and welded in place. Drive in a cross pin that sits just below flush, and put a TIG plug weld to hold it in place...smooth that off with a file if necessary. You now have it welded and cross-pinned and it's not going to fail. Depending upon your vise, it could be possible to do it with just all-thread that doesn't have a smooth section...you'd just have to see how the fit between the spindle and they dynamic jaw is where the spindle passes through behind the horseshoe collar.

Another method is to cut off the threaded section, buy a new threaded section and weld them together. I like to center drill then drill each half to accept a dowel pin to keep them in alignment. V both sides, join them with the dowel pin and put that all in a vise with V blocks holding them until you can tack weld the assembly several times around the perimeter. Once tack welded you can just fill in the groove and turn down any excess. I tend to think the first method is a bit more foolproof and stronger since it doesn't really rely much on the weld strength. I've heard of people just boring and cross pinning without adding the welds and they held up fine, but I like adding the welds just in case.

The third option is to find you friendly vise guy forum member who probably has a couple of Wilton C1 spindles on the shelf that are in useable condition. I'm almost positive I do and can check if you'd be interested...at a fraction of the new cost from JPW. I might even have one with the handle already removed so it would be cheaper to ship....pretty sure you could tackle the handle replacement. The ball ends on your current handle are swaged in place. All you have to do is carefully grind the end and you can drive the ball end off and when you mount it on the new spindle just run a small plug weld over the spot your ground off and smooth with an angle grinder.

BTW, your C1 was made prior to 1957 when Wilton left Chicago proper for Schiller Park (near the current Chicago airport).

For anybody interested, I have an article on how to find the date of Wilton vises on my website:

Wilton Vise Date Stamping • MIVise

***Note: If you’re reading this post so you can cut and paste portions for your eBay listing please be kind enough to cite the source. There were a lot of people before me who put time into collecting this information and they should at least be given credit.*** One of the most common questions...

mivise.com

 

[G-ManBart]

Not sure what's in the vise: is the casting threaded or is there a nut? If there's a nut:

• Odds are that it's as damaged as the screw and could stand being replaced too.
• It would probably be just as easy to make as the screw.
• Going from 4 TPI to 5TPI should give you more clamping force for the same torque applied.

There is a nut, but it's not a traditional shape. It's a long tube, maybe 9" long on that vise, with locating tabs at the back that keep it from turning as well as holes for pins that go through the vise body, through the tail cap assembly which fits into the back of the body, and then into the nut.

I'm sure it would be possible to make one, but my guess is 7/8" 4tpi internal Acme threads that deep would be a challenge for a lot of folks (me for sure!). That would seem a pretty long reach for a fairly small diameter boring bar. Now that I think of it, they aren't threaded all the way, so maybe only 5-6" of threads might be needed.

 

[G-ManBart]

Hey Ed . FWIW . We stripped the threads out of our very large Starrett vise in at work today ! Pulled the Acme stud out and had a perfect spiral chip that was left of the piece inside . Just thought you would get a laugh out of this . On the other hand , we'll check out the $$$ for a replacement piece or have to buy a new vise . I'm going to advise them to give it to the scrap man ............................................which is me .

Ouch...that's not good! Starrett hasn't sold bench vises in ages and they stopped selling parts a long time ago as far as I know. Even simple things like replacement jaws aren't available other than finding NOS on eBay.

They aren't going to like the $$$ on anything even remotely equivalent (there really isn't anything truly equivalent to that style any more).

 

[mmcmdl]

I just ripped into the Starrett 935 vise . The casting is completely stripped of the threads . The threaded rod is 1.125-4 and has that damn one sided sharp thread . This is going on the back burner for now .

 

[G-ManBart]

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for looking.

Eddy

This is what you're looking for...I'm not certain whether it came from a C1 or a 450S as they use the same thread pitch and diameter and I have parts from both vises on the shelf. The 450 spindle is often a tad longer...like an inch or so, but that would be easy to remedy. I think it's due to the C1 having a different jaw support profile to account for the pipe jaws, so they lose a bit of opening width. It's clearly seen some use, but the threads still look nice and the grove for the horseshoe collar isn't worn like you sometimes see. I could probably get this to you for about a tenth of what Wilton wants give or take....shoot me a PM if you're interested. I'm pretty sure I have a swivel base as well....didn't think to look, but I can check if you're interested.

 

[mmcmdl]

Following along here . I found multiple 1" x 4 tpi Acme threaded shafts in our boneyard today . The Starrett 925 originally had a 1 1/8 -4 tpi trapezoidal thread ( if I can remember the true name ) . The threaded casting is completely stripped out and the rod shows wear . My boss says to throw it out . Uh , no . I have room enough to bore the casting and shrink fit a sleeve with the Acme thread which I would machine . If needed , I could turn down the original rod and rethread Acme or just machine a new one up with the boneyard material . Bottom line , the vise will be saved from the scrap yard .

 

[Eddyde]

This is what you're looking for...I'm not certain whether it came from a C1 or a 450S as they use the same thread pitch and diameter and I have parts from both vises on the shelf. The 450 spindle is often a tad longer...like an inch or so, but that would be easy to remedy. I think it's due to the C1 having a different jaw support profile to account for the pipe jaws, so they lose a bit of opening width. It's clearly seen some use, but the threads still look nice and the grove for the horseshoe collar isn't worn like you sometimes see. I could probably get this to you for about a tenth of what Wilton wants give or take....shoot me a PM if you're interested. I'm pretty sure I have a swivel base as well....didn't think to look, but I can check if you're interested.

Yes That would be great, Thanks!

 

[Eddyde]

Hey Ed . FWIW . We stripped the threads out of our very large Starrett vise in at work today ! Pulled the Acme stud out and had a perfect spiral chip that was left of the piece inside . Just thought you would get a laugh out of this . On the other hand , we'll check out the $$$ for a replacement piece or have to buy a new vise . I'm going to advise them to give it to the scrap man ............................................which is me .

OMG! how did they manage to do that?

 

[Eddyde]

Update:
Thanks to G-ManBart who gave me a great on a gently used spindle screw and swivel base, the vise is finally complete.
The spindle didn't have a handle so I made one from some drill rod I had on hand and a couple of threaded balls from McMaster
I took a skim cut off the spindle hub to clean it up, I also took a little off the bearing surface an added a bronze thrust washer.

I'm not going to replace the handles on the cap nuts for the swivel base, as they always seem to get in the way and I simply prefer to use a wrench. The Wilton is so much sturdier than the old vise, it's a big step up.

I cleaned up the Anvil as it was a bit pitted and I also wanted to get it a bit lower so it wouldn't interfere with long work being cut, on the saws further down the bench.

To that end, I also trimmed the bottom of the swivel base casting as it was uneven and needed it a bit lower.

I replaced the jaws with a set I bought off eBay.

All in, I spent about $350 including the vise. I'm very happy with the results.
Thanks again to G-ManBart, it wouldn't have come out so nice without those parts.

Even though I no longer need to make a spindle screw, I promise I will carry out some more friction welding experiments in the future
You know, just for fun!

 

[G-ManBart]

FAN-TASTIC! So many good ideas here but I love that you trued up the base and added the thrust washer. Wilton added a thrust washer (steel) a while back because it simply makes sense. I think bronze is probably better for someone who's going to pay attention over time.

I've said, many times, that a C1 is one of the best all-around vises for a home shop...and I like the looks of the versions with two pins holding the pipe jaws like yours best of all!