Befuddled about bearings, a couple of questions

WobblyHand

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OK, here is my first thought of how to rig this.
PLEASE excuse my total lack of artistic ability.

View attachment 382641

The vertical brown line is a heavy beam, minimum 4x4.
The purple and green are a stop to keep the beam from sliding.
the blue line is a chain with a snatch block at the end.
The red is tour control line being able to go out the door to a car, ground anchor, couple of BIG people, or what ever else you might have as an anchor point.
You may even want to add another plate off the end of the stop to hook the doorway so that the bottom of the beam can not kick out while pulling from the top of it.
Do not use nails to assemble the beam, Ideal is bolts and nuts, second choice is lag bolts or other big screws MADE FOR WOOD.
Interesting idea. How high (Z-axis, like in a mill) should the "heavy beam" be? Can it be 2-3 feet off the floor? I obviously need clearance for the lathe itself, which would be on skids or a trolley. Could I put a 4x4 across the doorway and attach an electric hoist there?
 

WobblyHand

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The eye of that (blue) chain is your stationary point? The same point can be achieved
by putting a beam over each of the apertures 'main house' and 'Ext Doorway',
with a length of chain between them, and snapping a carabiner on the link
that best centers over your basement stair approach.

Then attach a come-along and lower it that way. Something similar worked for
my (heavy) washing machine, getting it into the basement. My anchor
points were a heavy C-clamp on a structural joist, and a post screwed and
clamped to other structure.

A come-along has a pawl on the handle that moves the cogwheel, and a
catch pawl on the frame that holds the cogwheel from unwinding. So, to lower
down to your basement, just move the handle to the near-UP position, pull up
til its pawl budges the cog, and manually release the catch pawl; then the handle
can move down while still engaging the cog, and at the near-DOWN position,
reengage the catch pawl to grab the cog again. Then, and only then, you
can release the handle pawl and safely shift the unloaded handle back to
near UP, and repeat the cycle.

A come-along will cheerfully shift the load on a downward (cable-extending) trajectory,
as long as you always keep at least one of the two pawls engaged on that cog, and keep
control of the handle.
Good idea. Not sure if the "main house beams" are as strong as we are assuming. I am going to have to test this somehow.
The come-along I have is not the best. I used it to get the pallet (with the lathe and stand attached to it) out of the car and onto the porch. Not sure if my hand-me-down come-along is defective or not. I will go to a store and compare it with a new one. Either way a new one isn't that expensive.
 

WobblyHand

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Guys who move stuff are proud of how strong/smart they are....
Yeah, until they hurt themselves or something. Then they get smarter! So an older guy (more experienced) is who you want to go with.
 

WobblyHand

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Just something to think about...

I moved the bed of my 12x36" lathe (~500lbs with headstock and everything else removed) down a steep flight of basement stairs. I only used a rock climbing belay device and a carabiner to lower it. Well actually a pair, but only needed one. Super easy with one friend as a spotter. Once down, I used a cherry picker to move it around the basement.

Going up was a lot harder, did that a few weeks ago.

To get it into my new house basement, I talked to the movers which are taking our furniture from the Uhaul into the house and they said they'd carry the bed of the lathe down no problem. 3 guys. Seemed nuts to me but they were confident. Told me they moved a 2000lb gun safe and a bridgeport into a basement the week before. $100-200 would likely get that plus all your other machines down in one go if you hired someone.
Got the mover option still open, but rather know how to do this myself. Have not exhausted my options.
 

WobblyHand

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Got the treads in on the stairway. What a difference! Gee, should have done this 30 years ago. Overall, the stairs are in pretty good condition, with some auxiliary supports in the right places. Feels SO much more solid now. 2x10's held down with 3.5" screws. 9 steps. Original wood was 3/4" thick, very dry split or cracked in a few places. Also it was bowed and rocking in other places. Now that I have done it, and look back at it, it was rather rickety.

Old wood fought me all the way. Nails were mixed, cut nails on top 4 steps, and modern nails on the bottom 5 steps. Most had rusted in the wood. Pull out was difficult at times with nail heads ripping off. Found out modern nail pullers don't work so well on cut nails. The slot that is used is the wrong shape. But it is done. At the bottom of the stairs is a 4 foot persuader. With a 4 foot lever (if I could get it in place) it was sufficient to get the stubborn stuff out. At times, had to use vise grips to hold the nail and then a nail puller lever on the vise grips.
PXL_20211021_001428484.jpg
Have to design the ramp and the secondary landing area. Need to swing the lathe 90 degrees to the left on step 7. (Numbering from the top.) I will extend step 7 to step 8. (Build a pedestal on step 8 to make it the same height as step 7.) Then the light end of the lathe will be the same height as the stand, which I will park to the side of the steps. Then 2 man lift heavy end onto stand. At least that is what I am thinking right now.
 

WobblyHand

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The eye of that (blue) chain is your stationary point? The same point can be achieved
by putting a beam over each of the apertures 'main house' and 'Ext Doorway',
with a length of chain between them, and snapping a carabiner on the link
that best centers over your basement stair approach.

Then attach a come-along and lower it that way. Something similar worked for
my (heavy) washing machine, getting it into the basement. My anchor
points were a heavy C-clamp on a structural joist, and a post screwed and
clamped to other structure.

A come-along has a pawl on the handle that moves the cogwheel, and a
catch pawl on the frame that holds the cogwheel from unwinding. So, to lower
down to your basement, just move the handle to the near-UP position, pull up
til its pawl budges the cog, and manually release the catch pawl; then the handle
can move down while still engaging the cog, and at the near-DOWN position,
reengage the catch pawl to grab the cog again. Then, and only then, you
can release the handle pawl and safely shift the unloaded handle back to
near UP, and repeat the cycle.

A come-along will cheerfully shift the load on a downward (cable-extending) trajectory,
as long as you always keep at least one of the two pawls engaged on that cog, and keep
control of the handle.
The more I think about this, the more I like this approach. 4x4's across the apertures with some chain and a carabiner sounds relatively safe to me. I was looking at an electric winch, but the thin cable size (4mm) and manufacturer really makes me nervous. Already have the come-along (and have used it). The cable size is closer to 5mm. I have some 3/8" (9.5mm) chain as well. I will practice with a 50 lb load to make sure I can do the lowering more naturally. Need more practice on the releasing, as I've found it awkward on this come-along.

Thank you for the suggestion.
 

jwmelvin

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You know, even 1/8” cable wouldn’t flinch with this load. I think it’s good you’re being thoughtful, but I think you can forget about the ultimate strength of most of these components and focus on what will be difficult for you as a human. There are usually some awkward parts when changing direction or transitioning in some other way.
 

WobblyHand

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You know, even 1/8” cable wouldn’t flinch with this load. I think it’s good you’re being thoughtful, but I think you can forget about the ultimate strength of most of these components and focus on what will be difficult for you as a human. There are usually some awkward parts when changing direction or transitioning in some other way.
If there was a perfect setup and no abrasion, I'd agree. But the setup won't be perfect, and some things may rub, or hang and then jerk. That's when one wants some margin. I've seen what happens when one runs out of margin, it can be ugly.

There will be some awkward spots, because transitioning is where the "fun" is. (Going around corners, going over the lip of the stairs, at the end of the ramp, lifting onto the lathe stand, etc.) There will be sweat involved, and probably some sore muscles afterwards because of the transitions and unanticipated issues. However, pretty confident that the setup is not too hazardous now.
 

Flyinfool

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One of my rules when moving heavy things down steps - NO ONE IS ALLOWED BELOW THE LOAD.
It may be a bit awkward but all guiding is done from above the load.
Worst case and it gets away there is only material damage but no hospital runs or paramedic visits.
 

WobblyHand

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One of my rules when moving heavy things down steps - NO ONE IS ALLOWED BELOW THE LOAD.
It may be a bit awkward but all guiding is done from above the load.
Worst case and it gets away there is only material damage but no hospital runs or paramedic visits.
Agreed.
 
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