Brown & Sharpe taper questions

[AR. Hillbilly]

Hey all I recently bought a very old Brown & Sharpe ???no. 1 horizontal mill. I don’t have it home yet.
I’m told it’s a Brown &Sharpe 9 or 10 taper.
It doesn’t use a draw bar just the center on the over arm.
Can I use a collet holder on this without an arbor or any short arbor without a draw bar or the over arm?
Would I have to have the spindle drilled for a drawbar for this.
As is, the long arbor is removed with a wedge like a Morse taper

 

[benmychree]

You would have to use a collet holder that has a tang for removal.

 

[AR. Hillbilly]

You would have to use a collet holder that has a tang for removal.

Thank you for the info.
Would it withstand the side load of a end mill or face cutter without coming loose?

 

[projectnut]

I have a similar size US Machine Tools #1 horizontal mill. The arbor is pulled into and held in the socket from the rear by a 1/2"-13 bolt. When the arbor is removed the same bolt secures any of the B&S #9 collets in the socket. As far as I know all B&S #9 sockets are threaded at the rear.

Brown and Sharpe #9 Collets | Collets for Sale

Sold in individual sizes, these Brown and Sharpe #9 collets are hardened and precision ground to hold your workpieces securely. Order your preferred size today!

littlemachineshop.com

 

[AR. Hillbilly]

I have a similar size US Machine Tools #1 horizontal mill. The arbor is pulled into and held in the socket from the rear by a 1/2"-13 bolt. When the arbor is removed the same bolt secures any of the B&S #9 collets in the socket. As far as I know all B&S #9 sockets are threaded at the rear.

Brown and Sharpe #9 Collets | Collets for Sale

Sold in individual sizes, these Brown and Sharpe #9 collets are hardened and precision ground to hold your workpieces securely. Order your preferred size today!

littlemachineshop.com

The spindle on this oldie isn’t hollow beyond the taper tang slot.
It is my belief that the over arm which touches the end of the arbor with a center (rather than riding on a bushing ) helps to keep the arbor seated.
I do see mill holders with the tang end but no collet holders.
Not sure what to do?

 

[OTmachine]

Is this it?

Brown & Sharpe Mfg. Co. - 1894 Image-Brown & Sharpe Mfg. Co., #0 Plain Milling Machine | VintageMachinery.org

A Treatise on the Construction and Use of Milling Machines Made by Brown & Sharpe Mfg. Co

books.google.com

 

[OTmachine]

Thank you for the info.
Would it withstand the side load of a end mill or face cutter without coming loose?

Pretty much made for shell mill or side cutters from what I recall. Other than that, I would see about an alternate method of securing the tool holder. I know a gal in Colorado whose father had one of those. Pretty neat machine. Could probably adapt an ER type collet holder to work.

 

[AR. Hillbilly]

Is this it?

Brown & Sharpe Mfg. Co. - 1894 Image-Brown & Sharpe Mfg. Co., #0 Plain Milling Machine | VintageMachinery.org

A Treatise on the Construction and Use of Milling Machines Made by Brown & Sharpe Mfg. Co

books.google.com

That is a zero and mine is a no one I believe. Very similar

 

[benmychree]

Thank you for the info.
Would it withstand the side load of a end mill or face cutter without coming loose?

Typically, B&S tapers hold up to side loading pretty well, occasionally they can work loose, but if well seated with a soft hammer, they will stay in; I had a somewhat later #2 universal from about 1906, it had an overarm support that had both the center and bushing for the arbor, I did a lot of work with it over about 30 years until I replaced it with a newer model from 1943, which I still have.