Buying my first new lathe. Chinese or Chinese?

Thank you David. I kinda figured that's what it was but then I thought it might be the actual placement of the tail stock itself being locked in.

I did look at the 1340 and I did want to pull the trigger on one even though it would have been the same cost I am at now with zero options but guess what I found.....No clue when one will come in. PM had suggested at one point the end of Nov early Dec then they changed it to Jan/Feb and now they are saying really no clue so I could be looking at 6-10 more months. I was hoping for a 2023 delivery.
I also looked at the Eisen. They have a nice 1440 in stock but they only have a 1yr warranty and not a ton of options. The thing that pushed me away from them was the $1300 shipping fee OUCHY.
 
Thank you David. I kinda figured that's what it was but then I thought it might be the actual placement of the tail stock itself being locked in.

I did look at the 1340 and I did want to pull the trigger on one even though it would have been the same cost I am at now with zero options but guess what I found.....No clue when one will come in. PM had suggested at one point the end of Nov early Dec then they changed it to Jan/Feb and now they are saying really no clue so I could be looking at 6-10 more months. I was hoping for a 2023 delivery.
I also looked at the Eisen. They have a nice 1440 in stock but they only have a 1yr warranty and not a ton of options. The thing that pushed me away from them was the $1300 shipping fee OUCHY.
I totally understand where you're coming from. There are so many options for a beginner, and it's difficult to know what what to prioritize. While I truly believe in the idea that the machines from Taiwan are better than those from China, PM (Matt specifically) does stand behind what he sells. Most of the warranty issues will show up in the first year of use if you actually push through the the installation/setup of the machine, do the run-in procedures and start making some chips. Obviously, if the machine sits crated in the corner week after week without being "put to the test", then any issues that need to be corrected will be discovered later and that may impact warranty claims. Personally, I would consider Eisen if the machine is made in Taiwan, but stick with PM if it's made in China because of their excellent support. Even Taiwanese machines have some issues - nothing is perfect at this price point.

Like Mark (@mksj ) said, I too think the PM-1440-2SM-V has many nice new features and is worthy of consideration. It's a nice package on paper, with attractive options built-in. To achieve a similar configuration from Taiwan, you're looking at another $5K at least and a lot of your own time doing the VFD conversion, etc. I would also encourage you to set aside your "I want it now" tendencies, concentrate on what machine you really want, and just wait in the queue. You have plenty to read up on and learn while they manufacture your machine and get it here. I spent hundreds of hours watching YouTube videos while I waited for my PM-1340GT. Get what you are satisfied is the "right choice" for your situation independent of delivery lead times.

If you'd like to dialog further on choices, options, etc, start an off-forum conversation with me. Always happy to help.
 
Also, don't forget, you will need some funds left over for tooling and measurement instruments. Attached is my curated list of items that I recommend - not that you need all this stuff, but these items all represent good long term value IMO - not the cheapest junk from China, nor what you'd call " aerospace investment grade" either. I've also attached some other documents intended to educate and guide your choices/thinking.
 

Attachments

  • Introduction to Machine Tapers.pdf
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  • About R8 ER and 5C Collets.pdf
    1 MB · Views: 73
  • Machine Tooling Get Started List December2022.pdf
    168.6 KB · Views: 65
  • Introduction to Taps and Dies for threading May 2022.pdf
    2.8 MB · Views: 57
  • Parting on the Lathe - Good Practices 7-2022.pdf
    3.5 MB · Views: 60
I suppose a fairly decent angle finding tool would be much more cost saving and probably faster than an attachment.
The only tool you need is a pen and a cocktail napkin, the math is pretty basic!

I always thought resetting the tailstock to get it dead center would be a much more time consuming effort but I could be wrong on that.

There are a few tricks out there, but my favorite is the steel rule placed between centers. It points like a compass as you move into alignment. The correct way is to turn what is called the two collar test, where you essentially turn a test bar and check for taper with a micrometer. None of the operator's controls on a lathe were meant to be welded shut, they are there to be utilized.

edit: Good on David for posting some of his articles, he's really great at putting info together in an accessible way. :beer:
 
Lathes also require a lot of additional accessories to make them functional, and you need to include a substantial budget for the additional tooling and chucks. I would figure at least another $2-4K in additional costs. Decent chucks is important, the PM-1440-2SM-V comes with a Set-True type of 3J scroll chuck (the typical generic Chinese chucks that come with the less expensive lathes usually become door stoppers), I would add the PM 4J Taiwanese independent 8", and also the PM Set-True type collet chuck (either 5C or ER40,
I bought a PM1440HD, Chinese, in 2016. Basically a decent machine but some details are less than ideal. That said it works well after a little tune up. MT4 tailstock tools were sent with it but it has an MT3. PM took care of that problem promptly by sending the upgrade set. Back when I bought my lathe more things were packaged with it as standard than now. I suspect they are trying to keep the price from looking too high as the prices have increased at least as fast as inflation. My lathe came with a decent DRO, very nice to have. As almost everyone has said, plan on spending a fair amount of $ for additional items. I got the taper attachment & a 5C adjustable chuck that I really like. I haven't used the taper attachment very often. If you get the 5C chuck get a set of collets by 64ths, not 32s. I also have an ER40 collet chuck and collets. The 6", 3 jaw chuck that came with the machine wasn't horrible and did work but I broke down and bought a nice Taiwan made 8", 3 jaw that is far better. I've added mostly Shars BAX tool holders, they seem fine. For smaller work I mostly use HSS. Some of the Chinese insert tooling I have is OK but I now usually buy name brand stuff in spite of the price. I bought a better long nose live center, & a half dead center There are lots of other things you will want as projects need them. Have fun!
 
Congrats on your decision. With a bit of care, this selection will be a good friend for the rest of your days, unless you decide to make it become your bread and butter, running it all day long, every day. As to the taper attachment, I'm found it to be very easy to life without them. The need for one does not occur very often. Take your time looking for one.
Bill
 
Basically a decent machine but some details are less than ideal.
Hi Larry, can you give me some ideas what is not so good? Anything major that you had to deal with? I am hoping this PM is several steps up from the Grizzly?
 
I too think the PM-1440-2SM-V has many nice new features and is worthy of consideration. It's a nice package on paper, with attractive options built-in. To achieve a similar configuration from Taiwan, you're looking at another $5K at least and a lot of your own time doing the VFD conversion, etc. I would also encourage you to set aside your "I want it now" tendencies, concentrate on what machine you really want

Hi David. You are a wealth of info! The features for this machine are definitely swaying me. I don't think I have "I want it now" tendencies but I will say I am on a little bit of a time crunch because of some things I have to make for my backhoe which I must have before spring. With that said I am also concerned that PM really has no idea on delivery dates for their Taiwan machines and that is a little concerning. I definitely can not wait a year for a machine.
I might send you a PM soon as I would love your thought on the Eisen and the 2SM comparison.
This is the lathe I have been talking to them about but again I am just not sure this wouldn't be to much for me and what I intend on doing.

 
Hi Larry, can you give me some ideas what is not so good? Anything major that you had to deal with? I am hoping this PM is several steps up from the Grizzly?
The PM lathe only had a few issues as far as I can tell. Note that I'm no metalworking expert! But I did retire from my wood based mfg. business with lots of experience dealing with equipment. I did have two Grizzly tools there. A heavy drill press that was a POS and poor parts support. Sold it to some other fool. An oscillating edgesander that was OK± but not great. It was also sold under the Powermatic name for a lot more $.

PM 1440HD issues: the shear pin on the feed shaft had a hardened spring pin instead of the brass one shown in the parts manual. This meant there was no safety in case the feed was jambed. I made a new brass pin... Fixed
The head & tailstocks were slightly out of adjustment as it came. I did the adjustments as described in the manual. I bought a 2" bar of steel to do the headstock & 1 1/2" to do the tailstock. There are probably cheaper ways. The adjustments are tedious but have held.
Access to the ball oiler on the threading shaft, right end was blocked by the casting. I ground the casting clear.
The parts book showed a quick handle on the carriage lock but there was just a SHCS. I found a quick handle in my spare parts stock for my business, fixed.
The head stock came w/o any oil in it. Not sure why since the quick change box & carriage had oil. Easy fix, bought a 5 gallon of the recommended Mobil from the local distributor. You need to buy oil anyway to change out the oil after break in.
The already installed, by PM/QMT, DRO encoder covered up the crossfeed lock screw. There was no way around that, that I could see. So I cobbled together a lock on the headstock side that seems to work fine.
The QCGB seeped oil. It has a very thin gasket surface. A lot like a British motorcycle. I took the front cover off and used silicone gasket maker. I don't recommend doing that unless you are a glutton for punishment! Getting everything back together was a real PIA. And it still seeps oil. Luckily the oil travels to the chip pan instead of the floor. It probably takes a year to get low. I replaced the SHCSs on the change gear door with a single knurled screw I made. The machine has plenty of imperial threads available on the QCGB but only a few metric so changing gears manually has to be done sometimes, not difficult but greasy.

I've never used the coolant system, don't want to deal with the mess. I removed the light that came on the carriage along with the coolant distribution things. Didn't like the way the light worked.
I installed a stop to keep the tailstock lock handle from flopping down onto the ways. I put a washer on the tailstock ram lock to make it lock away from the working area.
The electrical box is on the back side so you need to keep access to that when figuring where to install the machine.

I already had a high quality Polish made level from my days of installing CNC equipment. I used that when installing the PM1440HD. I have gone back several years later to make sure all was still running true.

This machine has a cast iron base that serves as a very large, easy to clean chip pan.
The foot brake works great but I have rarely used it. There have been occasions, when doing something chancy (stupid) that I have had my toe over it.
I have opened all compartments and inspected for trash. All were clean.
3 HP 3 phase, never have had a shortage of power. Almost forgot. QMT had changed out the Chinese motor to a Polish made one before shipping. Doesn't say a lot for their confidence in Chinese motors but does say a lot for the integrity of QMT!

I have a good Japanese dial test indicator and have run it over every surface I can find. No issues found.

Any thing else I can answer?
 
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I would recommend going with the Eisen 1440E model you indicated if it it is available over the 2SM. You have the benefits of a Taiwanese made machine as well as going with a 3 phase motor with a VFD. Same manufacturer as the 1340/1440GT, although each distributor has their own specifications. The main difference is that many of the PM machines have a larger spindle bore for the same style of lathe. The Eisen support is also very good, I know quite a few people that have purchased from them. The other PM model that would be a step up would be the PM-1440HVT-2, the steel base version is fine. The corresponding Eisen model would be the 1440EV with a slightly smaller spindle bore. If you are going to be doing work with larger style farm equipment then you may want a heavier/larger lathe. When pricing the lathes also consider the accessories that come with it, the chucks (quality of the chucks supplied), etc.
 
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