Carbide insert quality differences query

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Bill Kahn

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I am buying some more CCMT 32.51 inserts for my PM1030. (Used in an SCLCR08-3A 1/2" in a 250-101). After a year now of Saturday afternoons playing with the lathe feel like more of a beginner than ever.

So, am up on ebay. And see scores of offerings. Ranging from say
https://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-CCMT...t-Set-In-Box/142252791433?hash=item211eed5689
At $8 for 10 of them

Through to say
https://www.ebay.com/itm/CCMT-32-51...32.51+ccmt&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=m570.l1313
At like $85 for 10 of them.

So a 10 to 1 ratio of price for generally the same thing.

Can folks tell me the difference?

I would expect factors like
1) Delivery time
2) Country of origin
3) How well they cut
4) How long they cut

But from a simple performance point of view, how different are they? Does spending 10 times result in significantly longer life? Given I still make boneheaded decisions on the lathe (and stall the machine, take a .1 instead of a .01 cut (subtraction remains a challenge for me when I am standing in front of the lathe)) are the cheap and expensive about equally robust to dumbness?

Thanks for thoughts. (Or pointer to previous threads on insert price/performance reviews/experience)

-Bill
 
Ok I want to start by saying I am not expert on the subject but I will give you my experience!

The Chinese ones that are super cheap are not too bad. The coated ones for steels are not as good as their more expensive counterparts from manufacturers like iscar, kennametal, sanvik coromat, etc. The Chinese uncoated ones for aluminum (and I use them for finish cuts on steel) are good to great.

What I have been using now that have the same quality of the big American companies offerings is stuff from Japan and Korea. In my experience I would rate any mitibishi or korloy insert as top quality and they are middle of the road priced. There are very good deals on eBay from both those companies.

You will find as your tooling increases the confusion of inserts escalates! Lol luckily I use only about 10 different kinds now!
 
I do notice a significant difference (finish and durability) between the generic inserts such as Cobra, and more name brand as noted above. I recommend staying with Iscar, Kennametal, Sanvik, Korloy, etc. purchased through a US vendor or there are some that ship from Europe. Most out of Asia are most likely counterfeit, but who knows. I have a range of CCMT inserts, but my main insert that I have been using is an Iscar 32.51 / CCMT 09T304 Grade IC907 coated. I get about 3-6 months out of an insert depending on usage, works great in a wide range of metals. I purchased some Cobra inserts a while back, they did not cut as well and failed quickly.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-10-pcs...ade-IC907-Coated-Carbide-Inserts/192580337571

On Aluminum I typically use ground edge uncoated polished carbide inserts, so something like CCGT. A ground edge is sharper but more fragile. The one listed below has a narrow tip, so feeds would be a bit slower for a good finish, but should be good for smaller lathes. I usually use a 32.51 vs 32.50.5 on my 1340 lathe.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/KORLOY-CCG...bide-Inserts-for-Aluminum-10-PCS/232751354295

Many of these name brand inserts come up with very wide price ranges, so buying from say MSC or Carbide Depot one would pay $12-16, but on eBay often you will see them for $2-4 for the same insert. You just need to hunt around and be weary of fakes, I often look carefully at the insert, box and labeling. So bottom line, you can get good inserts at reasonable prices, find what works for you and stick with that brand.
 
Greetings Bill, i have been buying Mitsubishi CCMT 21.51 inserts from a Chinese vendor that say made in Japan. Whether they are relabeled or counterfeit i don't know, what i do know know is they are very affordable and work very well. And like dsfmoto i also use uncoated ccgt for finish cuts on steel. Bottom line is carbide inserts are a disposable product and i see no reason to pay any more than i have too.
 
Obviously, the difference is the Kennametal brand name, not to mention the highest quality industrial grade products that they manufacture.
 
One thing also to remember. These are all global companies now who source their tooling from around the world. Even kennametal has some things made elsewhere in the world. Almost all the tungsten carbide comes from mines in China.

I do wonder about some eBay deals being repackaged. I buy my mitibishi inserts from a seller on eBay that sells other machine tools also. Some that are super cheap probably not legit!

This is a bit off topic but some insert designs made by some of the big names seem to me to be more for high power, high rpm machining centers and not your hobby shop lathe or mill. So just make sure you know what you are buying.
 
dfsmoto said:
One thing also to remember. These are all global companies now who source their tooling from around the world. Even kennametal has some things made elsewhere in the world. Almost all the tungsten carbide comes from mines in China.

I do wonder about some eBay deals being repackaged. I buy my mitibishi inserts from a seller on eBay that sells other machine tools also. Some that are super cheap probably not legit!

This is a bit off topic but some insert designs made by some of the big names seem to me to be more for high power, high rpm machining centers and not your hobby shop lathe or mill. So just make sure you know what you are buying.
Click to expand...
Tungsten from China is a raw material; the magic is in the processing and manufacture; quality makes a difference, the expensive insert is likely cheaper in terms of metal removal and long live, cheap inserts are likely to break down on the cutting edges and fail. Personally, I do most all lathe work with positive rake triangular inserts, which can be touched up on a diamond wheel if the cutting edge gets chipped. There used to be a area service that actually reground inserts on top, sides, and radius for a nominal fee, they would still fit the holders without shimming.
 
1) Delivery time -- 20-30 days
2) Country of origin -- china
3) How well they cut -- pretty good CNMG, have not used the CCGT yet.
4) How long they cut -- have not worn one out yet.

I, like dfsmoto, have had rather good luck with chinese carbide inserts, the only one I have damaged got damaged when the tool holder fell out of my hands and landed on my concrete floor and broke the tip off. I still am using the other tip on it CCMT holder.

I have only been working with 6061 Aluminum, though.
 
There certainly is a great difference in tool life between just cutting aluminum and other metals such as various steels, both hard and soft, cast iron of all grades, and steel that has been torch cut. Tool life can be brief --- !
 
benmychree said:
There certainly is a great difference in tool life between just cutting aluminum and other metals such as various steels, both hard and soft, cast iron of all grades, and steel that has been torch cut. Tool life can be brief --- !
Click to expand...
Haha yeah I have endmills that just get abused on torchcut steel! That's where they "end" their life.
 
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