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Chicago Dreis&Krump Box&Pan brake rebuild

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firestopper

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#1
I recently purchased this unit sight unseen from the City of Gilbert AZ. I went through Public Auctions for the bid process and after a little bid war with what appeared to be a pawn shop (based on the bidders handle) I was high bid at $1586.xx after taxes and processing fee. There was four photos (poor quality) along with the auction so kinda limited on my end. This model is BPO 614-6 with a Serial No. 316138. I found out from Dreis&Krump that the machine was sold to the USAF back in 1977. Its a 6ft (73") unit with a max bending capacity of 14 gauge mild steel across the entire 73". I doubt I will ever need to build a box that long so I could be able to fold thicker narrower sections including aluminum. Now for the risks on buying a brake sight unseen: Many knuckleheads will bend/brake items such as round bar and thick flat strap using cheaters for leverage. This poor practice can result in a "sprung" condition ruining a brake, or damaging Nose bars and hardened bottom bars as well as bending bars. This model is a BPO, "O"meaning optional bolt on hardened bars. Thats a good thing considering the other BP models have welded bars. The bottom bar has the ability to be flipped (like shear blades) to expose a virgin side. All the dings on worn bars transfer to the bends on softer material such as aluminum once clamped. The same goes for damaged Nose bars.The Nose bars can be reworked on a mill (I'm hoping) and the finger extensions can be made from 3/4" thick CR flat bar on a mill and vary in different widths (3",4",5"and 6") determined by the width of the Nose bar. These can also be "sprung" when abused. At first I was under the impression I was missing one finger, but after receiving literature from Dreis, I was pleased to find the machines complete.
I made the 130+ mile drive after shift to pick up the unit only to find the forklift operator forked it from the upper clamp to remove the machine from inside storage. This is not advisable and could damage the unit. I had loaded any rigging equipment I thought might be need to load the machine onto a 14K dump trailer I was pulling (little tall).
After removing all the fingers to lighten/balance the pick, I rigged it for picking and that went smooth. Secured the load for my 130+ mile drive home. I used every strap I keep in the rig.
IMG_1906.JPG IMG_1907.JPG
I got home around 2:30 pm and backed in the trailer for the night. I was too tired to unload the unit as I had worked a 24 hour shift that kept us up pretty much all night at explosion/fire that required 4,000 GPM and fifty firefighters. I had it made compared to the guys on the ground handling 2.5" hand lines. It was a defensive fire and we had exposures to protect. I was up 110' operating a Master stream from bucket ladder truck with onboard air (no SCBA required) plugged into my face mask :). I was pushing 800 GPM from the toggle switch controlling the nozzle so a cake walk compare to the young bucks on the ground. The explosion took place at a Jajoba processing plant that operated 24/7. http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/36802022/5-hospitalized-after-building-explosion-fire. We did have a substantial amount of transmission lines to avoid as there was a power substation in close proximity. I could feel/hear the energy coming off those lines..Creepy feeling. Perhaps all in my head, who knows.
Anyway, back to the brake,
Unloading the machine from the bottom: I had place some 4"cribbing under the brake running perpendicular to the trailer stringer running parallel to the heavy load at the time of loading. I also didn't want the machine to slide on the metal deck incase of emergency braking. This proved to be very helpful when I unloaded alone. I was able to use 8' fork extensions made some years ago from 6" channel. I was able to approach from the end but needed to drag the unit closer to the end of trailer. This thing is top heavy and off CG as the top clamp section was dislodge when the guy forked it from the bottom portion of the top clamp. The unit wanted to rotate counter clockwise co large C-clamps secured the lower stand to the forks as well as a rigging chain to assist in pulling the machine closer to the trailers a$$ end.

Lifting and gently pulling machine to trailers edge allowing the 8' forks to capture the front stand.
IMG_1922.JPG
Got it on the ground without drama.
IMG_1923.JPG
Next up was to reseat the upper clamp back onto the adjusting saddles.
I cribbed the unit leaving the fork extensions in place, then got a shorter 2X4 to use as a spacer under the upper clamp and gently raised the upper clamp to clear the saddle. I then raised the clamp arms using the cam action to line up the saddles and lowered the clamp into position. This went very easy and smooth.

Here you can see the misalignment of the adjuster. Luckily the connecting threaded rod is robust at 2" and supported the knucklehead poor choice of method to move out the machine. Before I reseated, I took the adjuster apart to clean the hard dried grease making it hard to turn. This was put back dry for now and moves freely.
IMG_1926.JPG
Short section of 2x4 to clear the finger extension mounts under the upper clamp.
IMG_1927.JPG
Raised it up just enough to rotate the cam lever to align the mouse hole over the L/R adjuster.
Once aligned, I gently lowered the upper clam to its home location. You can see the large clamp
adjustment threaded rod that connects the upper clamp to the lower portion of the table. The robust
design saved the brake from a total failed forklift pick. The sides are 1" thick plates as is the top end plates.
IMG_1928.JPG
Here you can see the machined bar that supports the finger extensions (behind the 2x4). The
2x4 prevented fork contact during lifting of top clamp. Also notice the table and bending leaf hardened
Bar. The machine will require a bending angle bar to bend to capacity. A common piece of 1/4"x2" angle should
do the trick so long as its straight.
IMG_1931.JPG
A total of 15 fingers and one custom made. I still need to inspect for damage, but right off the bat
they will beed to have the bottoms reconditioned. I also noticed one with damage from bending rod:mad:
IMG_1909.JPG
Spent a full day trying to adjust but found myself removing hardware to clean multiple coats of paint.
I also removed the table hardened bar to flip, the back side a virgin. The problem is two or three holes where drilled at the factory slightly misaligned. I should be able to slot them slightly using a mag drill. I was unsuccessful in aligning the leaf to the table by .0858". I decided to further tear down the folding leaf and inspect the pivot point for excessive wear that could be preventing the realignment. Working alone takes creative thinking at times when picking heavy items that want to rotate such as the leaf. I rotated the leaf 180º and secured a rigging chain and took up slack, then removed the two counter weight prior to removing the ten bolts.
IMG_1984.JPG
The pins where driven out using a bronze rod after the leaf was removed. They came out easy but then again, I used "Free all" penetrant the day prior. The paint was so thick a socket would not fit but a wire wheel took care of that. I wouldn't be surprised if lead base paint was used somewhere between those coats.
IMG_1986.JPG
Bronzed bearings as they are called in the manual. The pin fit snuggly into the cast bracket but very loose in the bushings. An oil journal was noted around the center and two legs front/back for the oiler that was painted over.
IMG_1988.JPG
These 3M products remove the layers of paint without cutting into base metal. Kinda expensive, but worth it and the green ones last a long time. The worn out one was used on several projects and is ready to be tossed.
fullsizeoutput_605.jpeg
The pivot pins have flat spots for the set screws to bite onto. Better than just round as this can become problematic to remove if a burr is encountered. I have delt with that situation (as many other have) its a PITA. They where thinking on this one.
IMG_1990.JPG
Waiting on parts quote and I might try to flame straighten the leaf section but probably wait to do it on machine. Back to the lathe/mill cart build.
Incidentally, I used the said cart (prematurely) as a support cart during inspection and teardown. Rolls nice under weight.
IMG_1994.JPG
IMG_1996.JPG
Gona also get some quotes for sand blasting. I don't want to install/press new bushings prior to blasting. Its really a toss up, spending more money on parts/blasting and paint, or reassemble after new bushings to ensure the unit it still salvageable/within tolerances, then disassemble if it proves to be good.:headache:

BTW, there is very limited information available on these units, If any tin benders on the site, please chime in. Any advice is always welcomed good/bad or indifferent.
I'm always trying to learn and share my experiences.
Thanks for looking, more to come later.
Turn and Burn!
Paco

Thanks for looking
 

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gi_984

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#2
Paco, looking good so far. Hope she isn't sprung too much. I'm eventually going to get a box/pan break for my shop. But not until I move into a bigger place.
Question: How will you recondition the bottom of the fingers?
 

francist

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#3
Nice work so far Paco, although I gotta say your work is always exquisite. I have an older (and smaller) D&K Chicago as well except at 36". Different style than yours with but also 14ga capacity. Mine came with no fingers so I ended up making some from scratch. The thread is here

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/brake-fingers.50968/#post-431868

for what it's worth. I doubt they'll stand up to hard use, but they do work just fine for the small stuff I fool around with. Looking forward to seeing how your machine finishes up.

-frank

edit: capacity of mine is actually 16 ga, not 14ga as stated above
 
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firestopper

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#4
Paco, looking good so far. Hope she isn't sprung too much. I'm eventually going to get a box/pan break for my shop. But not until I move into a bigger place.
Question: How will you recondition the bottom of the fingers?
Thanks gi_984, The Nose bars (fingers) are semi hardened. Too hard and they would fracture under use. I'm hoping to jig them up one at a time and face mill. I would need to find the worst one and mill clean. Once I have a "standard", I would need to mill the same amount off the remaining bars to maintain even clamping force and alignment. I just ordered the pins and bushing and one left hand screw (it was missing) and the tally came to $150 with shipping. While I as on the phone with Mona, I asked about the cost of Nose Bars, she informed me they run $21.00/inch:oops:. So yea, I'll give face milling (insert type) a try. On the finger extensions, I think a 3/4" CR flat bar would work well with minimal machining required. I'll post that when I cross that bridge tho. BTW, Chicago D&K use hot rolled bar for finger extensions.

Nice work so far Paco, although I gotta say your work is always exquisite. I have an older (and smaller) D&K Chicago as well except at 36". Different style than yours with but also 14ga capacity. Mine came with no fingers so I ended up making some from scratch. The thread is here

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/brake-fingers.50968/#post-431868

for what it's worth. I doubt they'll stand up to hard use, but they do work just fine for the small stuff I fool around with. Looking forward to seeing how your machine finishes up.

-frank
Thank you Frank,

I cant believe I hadn't seen you post on your box & pan brake, Very nice indeed. I skimmed though you post but will read it in detail. Your results are amazing! Nice work man. The model I have is no longer offered, but they still support all the parts. Hopefully, I can get her back in within tolerances. If I cant flame straighten the last .090", I plan on machining down the right pivot bracket and shim accordingly. I cranked pretty good on the torsion bar to the rear of the table but would hate to over do it resulting in FUBAR. I have done pretty complicated flame straightening back in the early 80's on submarines, but that was long ago and I was at my peak of my learning curve. These days I cant remember what I ate for dinner two days ago hahah. I've totally and officially ran out or RAM a few years ago. It would be awesome if I could simply plug in a thumb drive into my head and update RAM, but thats life brother, don't get old.;)

Thanks for the encouragement and input gents, I'll keep you posted on progress.
 

firestopper

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#6
Thanks Mike,
I have a plan "B" that would require machining one pivot bracket that might provide better control.
I repurposed an old threaded shaft to drive out the worn bushings. The were two piece set with the gap in the middle that served as a oil journal. The bushings also had small groves towards the center.
IMG_2001.JPG
fullsizeoutput_606.jpeg
Awaiting parts at the moment.
 
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firestopper

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#7
I received the replacement apron bearings/bushings and pivot pins from Dreis & Krump today. Turns out they use Oilite bushings now so no longer require the 30W machine oil to be shot through the ball oiler located at the top of the main pivot point. The question I have for you folks is, while I have the machine apart, should I drill out the old ball oiler, press in new bushing, drill small hole through the bushing (clean off any burrs) then install new ball oiler or will the Oilite provide enough lubricity on its own? I ask only because it's my understanding that the Oilite material only "sweats" oil under friction and temp then reabsorbs the oil under static conditions. The pivot action will never produce any measurable temperature change when bending metal. I'm thinking a little outside oil might keep things from wearing out prematurely but what say you?

This is the original left pin and two piece bushing that was removed. The pin was sloppy and worn about .008" at its worst spot.
The old two piece bushings have two oil journals machined 180º apart and gapped at the center where the ball oiler is located.
IMG_2057.JPG
Here you can see the ball oiler centered on the main pivot body. Again, the two piece bushing where gapped at the center allowing oil to coat the shaft then captured by the small journals on both bushings. This is originally how the machine was built in 1977.
IMG_2001.JPG
The replacement Oilite bushings are one piece with no hole or journals.
The new pins fit snug but rotate freely in the new bushings.
IMG_2056.JPG
Now would be the time to reinstate the ball oiler if at all. The components are heavy and I only want to do this once so any advice would be very much appreciated.
BTW, in speaking with Dreis/Krump's engineer, the tolerance for all pins and bushings on this machine are .001" per inch of pins diameter. I ordered the bushings/bearings for the left/right side clamp, pivot shaft and clamp handle assemblies. They where all very sloppy. The shafts all measured good so the old bushings did their job unlike the apron pivot points.
Thanks for any response in advance.
 

extropic

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#8
Just found this thread. Nice buy Paco.

I started to vote for the reinstatement of the oilers but, after thinking about it a little more, I'm not so sure.

How much service is that brake going to see in your lifetime (another 50 years). Would you ever wear them to the point that replacement was called for?

What are the trade offs?

Will more oil add to the life of the joint? I would expect so, as long as no contamination is introduced in the oiling procedure. Contamination isn't much of a problem considering the resident PM mechanic.

You could band saw a slot, perpendicular to the axis, at mid length and about half way across each bushing. Then cut spiral reliefs in both halves with a rotary tool to distribute the oil. Remove all burrs and shavings and there you go.

I think I'd reinstate the oilers, but I don't think it's a big deal either way.

Most importantly, there is about zero chance the brake will ever be abused (in your shop) so it's going to last a lifetime either way.

Regarding the leaf alignment, I don't understand where/how/what the problem is. When you revisit that area of the refurbishment please clarify what is to be aligned and what is out/where. Thanks, as always.
 

f350ca

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#9
I like the idea of oiling joints, fresh oil flushes out particles from wear thereby removing abrasive material. Drilling the one piece bushings isn't going to give you a reservoir. I'd be tempted to cut the new bushing and make two that would install as the old ones did.

Greg
 

firestopper

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#11
Just found this thread. Nice buy Paco.

I started to vote for the reinstatement of the oilers but, after thinking about it a little more, I'm not so sure.

How much service is that brake going to see in your lifetime (another 50 years). Would you ever wear them to the point that replacement was called for?

What are the trade offs?

Will more oil add to the life of the joint? I would expect so, as long as no contamination is introduced in the oiling procedure. Contamination isn't much of a problem considering the resident PM mechanic.

You could band saw a slot, perpendicular to the axis, at mid length and about half way across each bushing. Then cut spiral reliefs in both halves with a rotary tool to distribute the oil. Remove all burrs and shavings and there you go.

I think I'd reinstate the oilers, but I don't think it's a big deal either way.

Most importantly, there is about zero chance the brake will ever be abused (in your shop) so it's going to last a lifetime either way.

Regarding the leaf alignment, I don't understand where/how/what the problem is. When you revisit that area of the refurbishment please clarify what is to be aligned and what is out/where. Thanks, as always.
I like the idea of oiling joints, fresh oil flushes out particles from wear thereby removing abrasive material. Drilling the one piece bushings isn't going to give you a reservoir. I'd be tempted to cut the new bushing and make two that would install as the old ones did.

Greg
Thanks for the feedback guys, I think creating a two piece bushing might be the way to go. If I was to saw a slot the bushing would likely collapse (at the slot) upon pressing in resulting misalignment/binding of pin (I think). The contaminants would result from normal ware over the course of long term use so flushing by way of outside oil would work via ball oiler. I'm not 100% I need to grove the inside of the bushings as this could retain/pack contamination over time. The old bushing journals where packed with abrasive doodoo.
The distance from the ball oiler to the bushing is almost two inches, I was thinking the 1/4" hole (between oiler and bushing) in the main housing and a 1/8" hole through the bushing might provide a nice reservoir allowing the bushing to remain one piece. This would probably be enough to flush it on periodic scheduled maintenance.

Probably over thinking the whole thing, but the next guy that owns this machine will be able to place it in immediate service unlike myself.
Always room for improvement and I continue to learn by asking.

Extropic, The adjustments come by way of turn buckles found on rear of the top clamp and bottom table. Other adjustments are from the top clamp center and folding leaf center. the machine should have a slight crown to both the top clamp and apron when static. This provides an even bend throughout the bent/broken piece. I'm hoping my previous failure to achieve this was due to sloppy joints/pivot (all eight of them). Thanks for the Oilite link you provided. Unfortunately, I don't know the exact composition of the Oilite bushings Dreis & Krump sell. A good read non the less.

Hard to read but I have a hard copy coming:
Image 11-8-17 at 11.31 (3).jpg
Gentalmen,thanks again for taking the time to help me out.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Paco
 

firestopper

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#12
The 3/4" X 12" x 72" piece of cold rolled I ordered arrived late yesterday. I Plan on using this material for the finger extensions, Turns out all but one were bent making it impossible to line up the nose bars. Theres a total of 15 fingers (4) 3", (2) 4",(5) 5" and (4) 6" widths. Industrial Metal Supply had 3/4" x 10" CR but I required minimum of 10.5" wide so the next up size was 12" wide. (bummer). I was able to cut the bar flat on the Ellis 1800, It was pretty much maxed out but did a nice job cutting very close to square. I was able to get +/- .003"from end to end on a 12" cut so was happy with that.

This bar was a beast coming in at 30.600 pounds per foot so the 72" piece weighed a hair over 183.5 lbs. The hardest part was pulling it from the bed of the truck and onto the fork lift, the rest was cake as the input feed rollers make it very easy to feed the saw.

IMG_2108.JPG
The Ellis 1800 was barely big enough. The max height for this saw is 9" so flat was the only way to cut this.
It took about 4 minutes per cut and had a nice steady chip production. The saw is designed to be used dry, but with this much blade contact, a shot of WD-40 every 30-40 seconds made a world of difference. The blade was cool to the touch the entire time so the feed rate was right. The quality of the swarf also confirmed the feed rate. They looked like tiny cork screws.
IMG_2109.JPG
These are the finger extensions I'm shooting for. This one was the only one that survived the abuse. The rest are toast. The OEM extensions where made of Hot Rolled bar, but I wanted true flat bar to machine and the CR is a bit stronger. After the top/bottom is machined, I will lay out the two threaded holes and the nose bar counter board hole (top view).
IMG_2118.JPG
The bottom required more machining than the top as the nose bar clamps are involved.
IMG_2120.JPG
Heres the stack of extensions. Still need to de-burr and cut the 40º nose angle. I think the Ellis could provide a straight cut now that the pieces can be clamped on edge. I probably set up a stop so they all end up at 10.5"long after the 40º cut. The blade should like the 3/4" vs the 12" contact hahah.
IMG_2121.JPG
Close up of the cut finish, pretty pleased with the Bahco blade. They claim this blade pitch does it all, I guess they weren't lying.
I've been using this blade for the better part of ten months and have cut plenty of stock.
IMG_2123.JPG
Not exactly accurate but does represent how the extension (finger) is used.

Image 11-8-17 at 11.30.jpg
Thanks for looking, and happy hump day!

Paco
 

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f350ca

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#13
Thats an impressive piece of CR Paco. Interesting finger design, really like the hardened ends.

Greg
 

firestopper

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Thats an impressive piece of CR Paco. Interesting finger design, really like the hardened ends.

Greg
Yea, it was the largest CR flat bar I have ever delt with. The nose bars are semi hardened. I’m hopeful a face mill will clean them up. Dreis gets $21/ inch for those. The brake needs a ton of TLC, but a new 6’ box and pan brake is more than I can afford. We’ll get there...eventually.
 

firestopper

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#16
I decided to square up the flat bars before attempting to cut the 40º nose angles. Although very close and consistent, they still varied slightly.
I used a flat surface to to square up the factory ends and clamp two at a time then set them up for a face mill pass. I only have two shell mills and limited experience using them on steel. One is a four cutter that takes individual carbide tipped cutters that is manually indexed (3.5"), the second one is a 2.5" five cutter that uses TPG style inserts. Both of these cutter came with the mill as a package so not items I purchased individually with intent.
I had used the larger cutter on aluminum with very nice results and gave it a try. A face shield and long sleeve welding shirt became my best friends as hot chips where flying in all directions.

Here is the initial squaring using the factory edges prior to clamping. Poor mans granite surface;).
Incidentally, I purchased the large set up block back in 2002-3 on eBay back when plenty of good deals could be had (not so much now).
I want to say I gave $20 for it and its flat. I use this on the press often when pressing smaller bearings.
IMG_2146.JPG
Clamped the bars and set up on the mill.
The saw really did a fantastic job of cutting considering the length, but with a 12" cut they all had a slight .002-3" bevel that required clean up.
They will eventually be mounted in the vise flat for milling the steps on the ends. The sides need to be true for a good setup.
Verified the table and vise tram prior to this set up.
IMG_2137.JPG
The backlight made it easy to verify the precision square to the factory edge.
IMG_2131.JPG
No light showing after adjustment. Ready for the first pass. The right side on this particular piece was .001" wider than the left side (due to the bevel cut).
IMG_2130.JPG
First pass using the larger shell mill at 700 RPM and 10 ipm (power feed) with a depth cut of .020"
Climb face milling, is this correct?
IMG_2132.JPG
Re-clamped flipped and used the base of the vice for indexing the good side. A quick check with the square set up was satisfactory.
The carbide shell mill was tired starting off and the second cut finish looks like doo-doo compared to the first.
The second 6" pair of finger extensions where set up and I opted for the smaller 2.5" five cutter shell. This one uses TPG inserts that can be rotated three times. Well those where also tired from the start and had already been rotated three times. Poor planning on my part.
The finish was excellent compared to the second pass with the first cutter. All four 6" extensions are with in 1/2 thou.
I was able to get three of four sides of the 5" extensions before the finish surface began to diminish. The chips where glowing at 800 RPM and 10 ipm with a depth cut of .005" The inserts where done. Work stoppage until the new inserts arrive. I found some NOS Kennametal TPG 324 (1/16" radius) Grade KC730 (eBay). The old ones where unknown maker and more than likely a C2 grade. Inserts still confuse the hell out of me. It took me at least three hours to figure out what I had to begin with. Its all about learning, but inserts charts give me a headache:bang head: .

Heres a shot of the finish.
fullsizeoutput_61c.jpeg
The second shell cutter is a 2.5" ATP.
IMG_2144.JPG
14 sides down (5" pair still on the mill ) and 12 to go.
IMG_2140.JPG

Question for you experienced face mill users, would it be possible to utilize the same process to mill the the steps required, or will the interrupted cut be a problem for this type of cutter?

One end of top surface require a step. The opposing end gets the 40º angle cut (band saw).
IMG_2119.JPG
The bottom gets both ends step cut. I have end mills but wondering if a face mill cut is appropriate.
IMG_2120.JPG
That all the progress on the Dreis & Krump for now. Any advice is greatly appreciated. It's all about learning and not getting hurt.

Gonna take it easy today and take my wife to the Zoo for an evening special event.
Never been to our local Zoo at night so looking forward to seeing the nocturnal critters. Our evening temps are nice this time of year too.

Turn and Burn!

Paco
 

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f350ca

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#17
I have an indexible 1 1/4 inch end mill with an R8 shank that uses 2 triangular inserts. Would work great for the steps. This would be a great application for a shaper.

Greg
 

firestopper

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I have an indexible 1 1/4 inch end mill with an R8 shank that uses 2 triangular inserts. Would work great for the steps. This would be a great application for a shaper.

Greg
I've always been intrigued by shapers. Watched some videos of them in action, like the rhythmic sound they make. Neve used one or even touched one for that matter.
This is the cutter I used and considering for the steps. It is a 90º square shouldered, just concerned about the performance on interrupted cuts for the narrower steps.
https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/03122975
 

f350ca

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#19
Thats the larger dia version of mine, use it to cut shoulders often.

Greg
 

firestopper

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#21
Made more progress on the D&K brake. I was able to source the remaining six bushings from a local bearing house and saved a considerable amount and a very reasonable shipping charge. The remaining bushings are the largest sizes this machine uses from the smallest ID of 1.500 to the largest ID of 4" and lengths up to 3". I had priced them originally from D&K and they wanted $365 plus shipping of over $40. I was able to source them for $100.35 (including shipping and tax). Same ISO and SAE rating (Oilight).

I also was able to finish squaring the remainder of the extensions after replacing the inserts on the shell mill. They are all to exact dimensions and ready for the bevel cut on the nose bar end. I had mentioned in an earlier post that I would attempt to use the band saw for this operation by clamping the material vertically. More on that later.

The lager 4" ID bushing to the left will be made into two. They are used on the large clamp handle and cam over to open/close the heavy top clamp on the machine. The second set (middle) are offset within the handle creating the cam action (1.5" ID) and the last pair (2" ID) are for the pivot blocks that prevent binding of the action. They are 3.5" long and are pressed in the lower section of the main table.
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The old bushings where warn and sloppy. The tolerance is .001" per inch of diameter. These felt like they had over .100" play.
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This longer 4" bushing will be made into two and the ID fit was nice and snug. You can also see the cam over bushing that rides on a 1.5" pin.
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The last pair also fit nicely over the pivot block. This also controls the clamping force for different material thickness being bent.
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I took a measurement of the width needed for parting the larger bushing.
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The large bushing was indicated in within .0005" using the 8" 4 jaw comb chuck. I then grooved the area to be parted to crate a bevel.
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Set up the parting tool and power fed at 300 RPM using the chip brush handle to catch the cutoff. This material cuts well and is self lubricating.
The cutoff tool was slightly off center to preserve the bevel matching the factory end. IMG_2217.JPG
Rinse/repeat for second bushing. I really enjoy using this combo chuck. The repeatability is a time saver.
Re chucked the rings and bevel ID to match factory end and a tiny bit of facing to match the width needed.
Incidentally, D&K wanted $76 each for those ring bushings. I was able to buy the larger one for $45. :)
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The original bushing width measurement came in at 1.5065
The new bushings:
#1,2
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My seventeen year old chi com lathe still has it:cool:.

Next up was to cut the bevels on the finger extensions.
 

firestopper

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#22
Here's the set up I used on the Ellis 1800 band saw.

The saw was set to 41º (matching factory bevel). A stop was clamped (right clamp) to ensure all 14 pieces ended up the exact length. A little gap was provided for though chip cleanup after each cut. The face milled edge provided a square edge to ensure the saw cut to be as square as possible in both planes. This piece was 4" wide with the widest pieces at 6". The clamp on the left holds everything in place while the screw vise does the real work.
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I used a shot of WD-40 every 20-30 seconds as the material is .750" thick but at 41º it was cutting closer to 1.125". Each cut took about 3 minutes for the 4" wide stock and roughly 4.5-5 minutes for the 6". I adjusted the feed to produce a constant quality chip production but not so slow that the martial would work harden. I have made this mistake in the past when cutting CR, so I'm always keen on avoiding this. I once ruined a new blade ($60) cutting CR too slow.
For anyone using an Ellis saw with the lever lock style vise. Always use a secondary clamp (C-clamp) as the material will slip during an angle cut resulting in teeth stripping. This screw vise was money well spent saving countless blades in the long run. I still use the two original lever vice when cutting straight non round stock material.
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Pretty good match on the angle. The green finger (5") was the only sole survivor and used as a standard for all measurements. The rest are junk bent scrap made of HR flat bar.
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Ready for the next mill operations. I am very pleased with how well they turned out considering the method used to create the bevels.
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2-4", 4-3",4-6" and 5-5" (including the green one) for a total of 15 finger extensions.
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Got a few drops...Wondering what I can use them for.
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Thats all for now. I should finish tearing down the brake and get it to the sand blaster. Once I get it back, I will pull old bushings and mask and paint. I still have a fair amount of repairs prior to this but we'll get there.
Thanks for looking.

Turn and Burn!
Paco
 
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mksj

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#23
Paco, stellar work as usual. That Ellis is remarkable at it's accuracy, paid for itself many times over. Sounds like you got the shell mill to work well with the new inserts. Keep up the great work.
Mark
 

f350ca

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#24
Your making great progress Paco, can't believe how well that saw cuts.

Greg
 

firestopper

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#25
Thank you Mark,
Your RPM recommendation for the face milling operation was spot on, Thank you.
The Ellis still impresses me after ten years. Its a simple proven design for sure.

I have another face mill question for you guys.
Should I keep the vise set up perpendicular to the table (X axis) and face mill in the -Y axis (away from the front of machine) or +Y towards the front.
Or should I set up the vise 90º and face mill in the +X axis (climb mill). I only ask because the machine is two axis CNC with ball screws. I will be using power feeds. I have read that ball screw are less desirable in manual machines and I use this machine mostly in manual mode. To me, I don't think it cares as its still tight but I will be taking respectable cuts to achieve the next operation of steps cuts. I do lock down the axis when not used.
Any input would be appreciated. Probably over thinking it, but face milling on steel is new to me.
Thanks,
Paco
 

firestopper

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#26
Your making great progress Paco, can't believe how well that saw cuts.

Greg
Thanks Greg,

That saw has been good to me. I've pushed it to its limits on this project to say the least. I did spend over an hour detailing it after yesterdays workout. ;)
Paco
 

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#27
Yesterdays project was to drill/tap the clamp bracket holes and drill and counter bore the nose bar clamp hole. I was able to get the first eight fingers done but was disappointed at the quality control of D&K hole location on the clamping bracket. Seems they don't really try to center the pair of holes. The new fingers where laid out from the center and set up on the mill using the DRO. Each set required center measurement changes due to the 4 different finger widths (3",4",5",6"). Other variations encountered where the hole spacing on the 5". Luckily, I verified each bracket and made adjustment to each finger, That said, each finger has its own bracket. Example: Two of four 5" brackets where drilled at 4.250" OC. while the other two where 4.284" OC. and three of four 5" brackets D&K failed to center the hole layout:mad:.
My mistake was not verifying this so as a result the brackets bolt on slightly off center about 1/32"-1/16". I can live with this as none overhang past the fingers, they just look like an eighth grader laid them out.

A "Z" drill was used on the nose bar hole followed by a Weldon cutter with a pilot diameter just under the Z. A large counter sink broke the edge.
The counter bore was .386"deep for the 3/8-16 Allen cap screw.
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The pair of holes where drilled and taped to 3/8-16 and are centered to the finger.
The sharpie lines are just references for me to input the correct DRO reading.
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A test fit, Heres when I realized the brakes holes where not centered on the clamp bracket.
This particular bracket was centered and shared the same 4.250" OC hole spacing with a second bracket.
IMG_2230.JPG
The second bracket is close to flush on one side the finger and 1/16" short on the opposite side.
I could mill the difference but its really not an operational issue other than leaving me scratching my head and talking to myself:confused 2:.
fullsizeoutput_62b.jpeg
I decided to keep all my holes centered on all the new fingers but will accommodate for the varying hole spacing.
The steps have not been milled yet but you get the idea. Gonna try and get the other six fingers (2-4" and 4-3") drilled/taped today.
IMG_2235.JPG
Thats all for now, thanks for looking.
Peace,

Paco
 

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firestopper

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#28
Ready for step cutting operation.
Combined drilling came to 105", tapping 21" and counter boring 5.46" without drama except for the multiple razor cuts from handling these billets.
Those bevels really are sharpo_O.

Paco
 

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firestopper

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#30
Haha, Well Greg, I have to entertain myself when doing production runs. Now, if I was to add up my time figuring out how long it took to clean up the mess and divide the time by the number of holes drill/tapped I'd be :cry:. heheh
Not a single tool was harmed during the making of these parts:grin big:
 
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