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[4]

Collaboration on a 3D printed threading dial for a SouthBend 9C

January Project of the Month [3]
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brino

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#1
I have been slowly learning about 3D printing and have printed a number of useful parts, but have not printed anything that wears against another part.

I have read about printed change gears for a lathe (https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/if-you-need-gears-print-them.65634/), and was recently asked about printing a replacement gear for one that was stripped in a friends (2D) printer. So I guess I gotta learn.......

Then I read @RWanke 's post here:
https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/quality-of-3d-printed-thread-dial.67790/
It looked like an interesting project.

I looked around and found an existing model here:
Thingiverse: Southbend 9c Thread indicator one piece body

So I PM'ed RWanke to see if he was interested in a "collaboration".
I would print the parts if he would give some honest feedback about how they worked out.
We came to an agreement, and will attempt this "collaboration from a distance".
We will attempt to document the endeavour for the benefit of all.

That model comprises three parts.
The body:
1521165715281.png
1521165757025.png


The dial:
1521165934599.png


...and the gear:
1521165972720.png


Stay tuned for more updates!

-brino
 

brino

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#2
I already have the printer and bought a number of spools of filament on sale.
For me the cost to produce it is ridiculously low, and the knowledge is well worth the investment.

I have a spool of black PLA filament loaded. It's about CAD $45 dollars for a 1kg spool.
The three parts for the threading dial are predicted to use 71 grams of plastic.
That's about $3.20 in material. Shipping will cost more than that!
But again, I want the experience and feedback....that is valuable to me.

I printed the parts in PLA and I think it will be okay, but if that doesn't hold up I'd want to try some nylon or ABS.

Printing is not always quick, it does depend on print quality, infill rate and of course object size.
The software says it will take 7.5 hours to print this at the recommended 100% infill (solid object) with a slightly higher detail (lower than recommended layer thickness 0.14mm instead of 0.2mm).

Here's what Cura showed:
1521167272167.jpg


Next up some real photos!

-brino

1521167272167.jpg
 

brino

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#3
Here it is early in the print cycle:
early1.jpg


early2.jpg


Closest to the camera is the gear that rides on the lead screw, then the body, then the dial itself.

I use blue painters masking tape from the local hardware store on the heated printer bed. It allows the printed object to adhere really well during printing, but also to release easily form the bed when finished. It only leaves a little tape on the object that can be scraped off with a knife.

The Thingiverse page recommended: Rafts=no, Support=yes, Resolution=0.2mm, and Infill=100%.

I decided to print with: Platform Adhesion=brim, Support=Everywhere, layer height 0.14mm and Fill Density=100%.

The "brim" gives me a thin outline of the part on the bed. That helps the part stay put, and also gives the extrusion nozzle a chance to start passing plastic before it get to the real parts.

The "support" option builds a matrix of plastic support material under any overhangs to stop the melted filament from drooping when the angles or gap is too severe. They are meant as tempoary, disposable parts that break off easily. Some of it was already starting to break away as I removed the parts from the printer bed.

Note also the difference in terms between different software packages.

Since this is a relatively long print I went to bed.

The next morning it looked like this:
print_done1.jpg
print_done2.jpg


All the those "columns" are the support material for the overhangs...they should snap right off.

-brino
 
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brino

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#5
I almost forgot......

The model I used here (linked in first post) was based on another model from here:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1306037
This second one give a little more detail about the reamer, rod size and set-screw to use for assembly.

-brino
 

Hawkeye

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#7
The support pieces are mostly hollow. They use very little plastic. They just form a bridge for the first horizontal layers that aren't actually on the printer bed.
 

Dave Paine

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#8
Well done, the parts look good. Finding a model on Thingiverse saves a lot of time.
 

middle.road

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#9
I would have to guess that creating the model of the body took a bit of time and effort.
It's nice to be able to find a model ready to go.
 

RWanke

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#10
I'm really getting fired up about this. The parts look great, at least from this great distance. :grin: I hope I can make my part of this collaboration work as well as your end Brino.

I was thinking of you earlier this morning while reading some info on the very expensive change gears for cutting metric threads on an inch lead screw lathe and was wondering if printed gears would be an economical alternative, even if they only lasted for a few projects. ?? Again I know nothing about 3D printing and am having a hard time wrapping my head around melting globs of plastic on top of each other and it holding together. I guess I'm having flashbacks to my younger days attempting to melt model car plastic together to form "custom" parts. :eek:
 

Dave Paine

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#11
I was thinking of you earlier this morning while reading some info on the very expensive change gears for cutting metric threads on an inch lead screw lathe and was wondering if printed gears would be an economical alternative, even if they only lasted for a few projects. ?? Again I know nothing about 3D printing and am having a hard time wrapping my head around melting globs of plastic on top of each other and it holding together. I guess I'm having flashbacks to my younger days attempting to melt model car plastic together to form "custom" parts. :eek:
Brino had a link to another thread on printing change gears in his first post.

https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/if-you-need-gears-print-them.65634/

MrPete222 printed some to try out. He has the metal ones but wanted to see how the plastic version worked.

The HM thread contains a link to MrPete222 video, but for folks who want to see the video, I will repeat the link.

MrPete222 printed change gears video
 

Dave Paine

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#12
Today I upgraded my extruder bracket from the original plastic to aluminium, so I had to try printing something. I went to the model link in the initial post and printed the number dial. I wanted to see how well the numbers came out. Not perfect, the walls are not quite sealed with the top but useable. This would look better if I painted in the letters.

SB_9_thread_dial_8714.jpg
 

brino

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#13
A surprising amount of waste. I didn’t think there would be so much.
Shawn I did weigh the parts. Here's what I saw:

The three parts plus all the supporting material was 71 grams (2.5 oz.). (Exactly what the Cura slicer predicted!)
Without the supporting material the three parts weigh 56 grams (1.98 oz.)
So the waste material is only 15 grams (0.52 oz.).

-brino
 

brino

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#14
@RWanke, I was away this past weekend, but did get the parts wrapped up and shipped out yesterday. I believe it was a "7-day" estimate. I do have a tracking number of we need it.

This would look better if I painted in the letters.
Great idea Dave! I could see filling the recessed digits and lines with a high-contrast paint, letting it dry, and then carefully sanding the top face flat. I bet that would look great. Maybe black or red paint for yours and white paint for the one I printed in black PLA.

-brino
 

Dave Paine

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#15
The painting idea did not work out as well as desired. I printed another dial of better quality. I then painted the top and sanded off the surface.

The surface is not smooth due to the many layers used to fill the surface.

I would likely remove most of the letters and lines if I sanded off to remove the streaks in between. If I had the model I would increase the depth of the numbers, but I do not have the model.

Southbend_9_thread_dial_painted_8732.jpg
 

RWanke

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#16
@RWanke, I was away this past weekend, but did get the parts wrapped up and shipped out yesterday. I believe it was a "7-day" estimate. I do have a tracking number of we need it.



Great idea Dave! I could see filling the recessed digits and lines with a high-contrast paint, letting it dry, and then carefully sanding the top face flat. I bet that would look great. Maybe black or red paint for yours and white paint for the one I printed in black PLA.

-brino
I'll be looking for it. Thanks Brino. I'll also turn my son loose on the dial. He's pretty handy with fine detail with a paint brush.
 

middle.road

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#17
We could try doing up the model in Fusion360, and using a different font that would be more detailed and pronounced.
Here's another pict of one I stumbled on over @Thingiverse. Fonts didn't come out well.
Need to go at least .050" deep I believe.

EDIT: or perhaps reverse them... https://www.ebay.com/itm/South-Bend-9C-Metal-Lathe-Thread-Dial-3D-Printed-Kit-New-/182982078435

EDIT-EDIT: Can anyone get me the OD of this dial? I'm looking around for dimensions but have come up empty.

((this is really, really making me want to fire up the printer I've laying in the shop...))
 

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brino

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#19
He sent me a text with an interesting link that addresses strengthening PLA printed parts by annealing them in a heated bath. Might be something to try.
Thanks for the link. That is interesting.

It would be great to try some controlled experiments of printing several identical objects, going thru the strengthening process, and destructively testing and comparing the parts. My only problem is lack of time.

For this project the part I am most concerned with is the gear. It will be running against the steel lead screw, but it is very low torque.
If you find it does wear quickly just let me know, I've been looking for a reason to try printing ABS and nylon.

-brino
 

RWanke

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#20
My concerns too and the reason for my original thread. He also mentioned an article on reinforcing with some type of resin or polymer or such. We shall see how it all works out.
 

middle.road

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#21
Thanks for the link. That is interesting.

It would be great to try some controlled experiments of printing several identical objects, going thru the strengthening process, and destructively testing and comparing the parts. My only problem is lack of time.

For this project the part I am most concerned with is the gear. It will be running against the steel lead screw, but it is very low torque.
If you find it does wear quickly just let me know, I've been looking for a reason to try printing ABS and nylon.

-brino
I do believe that most nylons swell when they come into contact with oil. IIRC. YMMV.
 

Hawkeye

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#22
I've read information on doing the annealing dry in an oven of about the same temperature. Since most plastics absorb water, sometimes to their hurt, I'd like to see a comparative treatment with similar pieces done dry and wet, then tested to destruction.
 

ebolton

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#23
We could try doing up the model in Fusion360, and using a different font that would be more detailed and pronounced.
Here's another pict of one I stumbled on over @Thingiverse. Fonts didn't come out well.
Need to go at least .050" deep I believe.

EDIT: or perhaps reverse them... https://www.ebay.com/itm/South-Bend-9C-Metal-Lathe-Thread-Dial-3D-Printed-Kit-New-/182982078435

EDIT-EDIT: Can anyone get me the OD of this dial? I'm looking around for dimensions but have come up empty.

((this is really, really making me want to fire up the printer I've laying in the shop...))
For lettering on a 3D printed model, .050 deep should be good. One thing I've found that helps is adding a few degrees of draft to the letters. In CAD, set the neutral plane at the bottom of the letters and draft the surfaces out. Different CAD systems, of course, use different terminology... You might have do do a couple of draft features to get them all. It's a good idea to use individual draft features on each character, anyway, since draft features are notorious for blowing up when you try to add the last surface. That can be pretty frustrating if the last surface in on the 10th letter you are drafting. In some CAD systems, you can extrude features, including text, with a taper. That does the same thing as the draft but it's a lot easier. I don't know Fusion 360 to know what is possible there, though.

-Ed
 

Dave Paine

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#24
EDIT-EDIT: Can anyone get me the OD of this dial? I'm looking around for dimensions but have come up empty.

((this is really, really making me want to fire up the printer I've laying in the shop...))
My slicing software says the dial I printed is 25mm dia, so perhaps the dial is 1in (25.4mm)
 

RWanke

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#25
Got the thread dial in the mail today. Looks cool as all get out. My wife was even fascinated that you can make something like that by printing it. Anxious to get started on it. Gear looks like it meshes with the lead screw real well. I still have a week or so of work to get the lathe back together so it might be a while to report on the dials actual use (old boss called and needed me to come in and do some machining for him). I hope to do a write up on how I fit it together. If you would Brino, please PM me your mailing address. I have a little gift I want to send you and can't read the address off the package you sent very well and want to make sure I get it right.
 

brino

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#26
Got the thread dial in the mail today.
Gear looks like it meshes with the lead screw real well.
Glad to hear that.

I still have a week or so of work to get the lathe back together so it might be a while to report on the dials actual use (old boss called and needed me to come in and do some machining for him). I hope to do a write up on how I fit it together.
No rush. I'd appreciate any feedback....positive or negative.
.....and remember if you find the PLA plastic wears too quick I have ABS and nylon in stock.
This is a learning opportunity for both of us!

If you would Brino, please PM me your mailing address.
PM sent.

Thanks!
-brino
 

whitmore

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#28
The painting idea did not work out as well as desired. I printed another dial of better quality. I then painted the top and sanded off the surface.

The surface is not smooth due to the many layers used to fill the surface.

I would likely remove most of the letters and lines if I sanded off to remove the streaks in between. If I had the model I would increase the depth of the numbers, but I do not have the model.
One approach is to use a thin paint (which is transparent in small thicknesses), and apply excess, then press the face
against a flat to squeeze thin the part that isn't in the grooves. Maybe mix epoxy with black pigment, and clamp
against glass which has been oiled with silicone? This is giving me ideas... an old shaft graduation could be so treated,
and the squeeze-out could be accomplished with an application of heat-shrink tubing: nothing inside the
grooves would be disturbed.
 

f350ca

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#30
Brino, stop posting stuff like this, your making me want a printer. lol
Well done !

Greg
 
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