Collet System For Import 12x36 5c Vs Er + Drawbar Questions

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Steve M

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I have had a Smithy 12x36 lathe for a couple of years, having stepped up from my first lathe, a 3-in-1. Also have a Jet round column mill.

I'd like to put a collet system on the lathe. I have a 5MT to 3MT adapter, a set of ER25 collets with an R-8 adapter I use in the mill and am wondering what the best way to go for the lathe. There are 5C collet chucks available online for not too unreasonable prices that fit the D1-4 check mount in the lathe. I obviously could get/make a MT3 adapter for the ER25 collets or go the opposite route with a 5C collet setup.

I don't have any real need at the moment for the collet system. On the other hand, I do a little bit of gunsmithing on the lathe and a lot of rifle and pistol reloading so the need for smaller diameter parts pops up every now and then.

So, I am wondering if the 5C approach is worth the investment or the ER approach will work for me. I also am a little fuzzy on the collet closer. I get the drawbar system for the ER adapter and collet chuck and sort of get the 5C system. However I see these complicated (and expensive) 5C collet closers for sale that seem to be sort of an articulated drawbar of sorts. I also see simple drawbars with the internal thread 5C on one end and a knob on the other. I have found tubing with the internal 5C threads on one end, presumably these are for home brew closers. Not a lot of specifics on Ebay or here on 5C basics whenI do a search.

Would appreciate any and all opinions, comments, and suggestions on the best way to proceed, Thank sin advance for the help.

Steve in Central TX
 
I recently got a C5 chuck. I really like it. It goes on quick, the concentricity is good, it reduces the larger spinning mass of the chuck - it is great. If you search my content, I've posted pictures.

I am familiar with using an adapter sleeve & drawbar - the dedicated chuck is nicer. In all fairness, the collet chuck is not going to hold work any better than a chuck a able to. Sometimes to hold small work in a chuck, I've had to figure out a work around, but there is a way. Getting set up for collets won't be a game changer, it is simply real handy.

The benefit of the C5 is you can hold longer, through work. One drawback is that C5 has a narrow clamping range.

Let us know what you decide.
 
From my own research into the matter:

5C:
designed for work holding.
A stop is integrated into the design.
can clamp at the very tip of the collet and not damage the collet.
Wide variety of collets available for square, hex, and internal.
Wide variety of mounting styles available.
Well supported for use off the lathe, such as collet blocks, etc.
very narrow clamping range (something like 0.030").
not especially concentric, better than most 3jaw, worse than ER.
Draw bar reduces capacity of head stock, not an issue with large bore machines.

ER:
Designed for tool holding.
Very wide clamping range, a few collets can cover all sizes.
Work must be clamped over full length of collet of damage to collet can result.
Extremely concentric.
Little support for use in work holding, most fixtures are shop made.
Provision for stop is not integral to design, but can be incorporated into fixture design.
Front closing means no issue with head stock capacity.
A large nut is at the front of the collet (not an issue in my opinion).

The 5C system is the clear winner in most respects until you start pricing collets. Once you see how expensive it is to cover the full range of sizes, the ER system is only a fraction of the cost. You can easily spend more on 5C collets than you did on your lathe.
 
I have a Royal 5C system with the draw tube that came with my lathe. It works just fine for the minimal collet work I do. I also have hex and square collet blocks to supplement. If I did more collet type work then I would be looking at a collet chuck or collet closer. The type of work you do dictates what tooling best fits your needs.

Tom S.
 
Some related info can be found in this thread:
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/is-there-a-definitive-article-on-collets.36227/

If you have a D1-4 spindle with a spindle bore, for maximum versatility why not go with an ER collet chuck that mounts to the D1-4? No drawbar is needed and there is no limit to the length of work it can hold. There are probably a few examples out there of what others have done along those lines. Check out post no. 5400 over here:
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/thre...-did-you-do-in-your-shop-today.14637/page-270
 
Last edited:
if you do go for an ER chuck, I would have thought an ER40 would be a better fit for your lathe and spindle bore. ER25 is limited to 16mm/ 5/8.
 
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